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POPE! POPE! POPE!
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Jojo
Jojo
Old Shoe

Apr-19-2005 17:04

The Catholic Church now has a new pope!

Congrats to our new pope: Pope Benedict XVI!

He is 78, one of the oldest popes, and is from Germany. His name is Joseph Ratzinger.


HABEMUS PAPEM!
(Latin for: We have a pope!)

Replies

Blaise Joshua
Blaise Joshua

Apr-29-2005 02:50

Sorry Jojo ... I don't really understand what your first and last sentences mean in your last post.

Basically, two topics that will always court controversy, from the local pub to the Sleuth message board, are politics and religion. You can't expect to raise either topic anywhere without getting a strong response, positive or negative.

If I were to celebrate the re-election of Tony Blair as Prime Minister of Great Britain (if indeed he is re-elected) with the subject line 'Blair! Blair! Blair!', I would naturally expect some passionate reaction. He, like President Bush, is a hero to some and a villain to others. Sadly, the Pope is an equally controversial figure at the head of an equally controversial religious structure.

Living in Ireland, which obviously is a very strong Catholic country, I've seen much debate over the past few weeks regarding the Church and the Pope. In equal measure, Catholics in Ireland are celebrating the arrival of Pope Benedict XVI while some see this as the appropriate time to raise what they feel are important issues regarding the Church (which, until quite recently, wielded immense power over the Irish people).

Religion is just one of those emotive topics. Everyone is free to raise it and express themselves on it, but expect a reaction.

jstkdn
jstkdn
Well-Connected

Apr-29-2005 03:51

Me too. I have not expressed my opinion for or against the pope. Simple reason why is, though some may use the catholic church and it's leader to push things that god never would have meant to have pushed. While others use the catholic church, to push things that god would want to have pushed, and never would have if it wasn't for someones religiuous believes and goals.
In that sense, and opinion for or against this pope does not matter. What does matter, is how people end up responding to his leadership, and to which of his opinions.

What I am objecting against, is that people are to be silenced for having an opinion in here. That leadership is questioned, is a good thing.
God, in all her wisdom, created people with different opinions. Also god I am sure questions many things all human beings, including the Vatican itself in some of their collective or personal actions. THe important thing is, we all have an internal inner voice or intuition, by which god speaks to us. To decide what is good for us. For some people it is not practicing sex before marriage, and for others it is using a contraception when they do so. These are both good things.

I do not think it is fair to say, that these peoples posts are rude, hurtful and offensive. That's turning these peoples posts in to something they were not. I suggest we read their posts, and form their own opinion. Instead of a simple conclusion written that they are offensive.

My opinion, the arguments for or against the pope in here. Well most of them anyway. Are well written, argumented, and well meant on both sides.

The fact that people discuss moral rules, are a good thing. And should always be debated. This encourages people to think about morals in the first place. Many of us on earth, do not spend enough time thinking about it.

And no leader or authoritative body should be blindly followed, be monitored and questioned. This is the thing that Americans can pride themselves the most in.

Reverend
Reverend

Apr-29-2005 15:15

I wood encourage this discussion. its been very informative for me to PM Lady Grey and chat about it. Itís great. And when you talk about important things you really get to know someone. Talk about fluff all the time and you never know someoneís core.

I hope topics like religion and politics don't seem or become talking taboo. If its done calmly and with an attitude of never being offended, it can reveal so much about people and their individual worlds.


Lady Grey
Lady Grey

Apr-29-2005 15:29

Thankyou Reverend, while I don't completely agree or disagree with your faith I enjoyed talking about it and learnt a little bit I didn't know before.
I was careful to phrase my quote in a none degoratory fashion and at know point personally insulted anyone, unlike a certain other gentleman. I would consider a comment about the pope that is not enthusiastically joyous in a post about the pope to be relevant.
I could have raised the point that not all popes were nice people. For example in 15th century Italy the Pope was in fact enthrone just outside Milan because Rome was occupied by rebels. It was considered perfectly acceptable for him to hire a troop of mercenaries to retake Rome with Land Grants and then, after they were paid, declare them heretic and forfeit all their lands and goods to the church.

Lady Grey
Lady Grey

Apr-29-2005 15:36

Incidentally: Check out a Papal fan site.
http://www.ratzingerfanclub.com
It is quite an informative site

Jojo
Jojo
Old Shoe

Apr-30-2005 13:01

Ok, I will try to clear up a few things about this topic and then ask that no one post in this thread anymore. Thanks.

1. Blaise, I had another post besides the one that got posted written. I decided to refrain from posting it to not hurt feelings like people did to some people.

2. This thread was made to NOT talk about doctrine, morals, or anything of the sort! I made it to congratulate the Catholic Church and its members. NOTHING ELSE! A select few turned it into what it should not have been.

John Hale
John Hale
Yarn Weaver

Apr-30-2005 13:44

Jojo, creating a post is the same as introducing a topic for conversation. It is the electronic equivalent, in fact. Everyone here has kept it civil and shared a great deal of information and belief. When you introduce a topic, any topic, that is all you can hope for. A simple, tight focus for a conversation that is this big...and on a worldwide forum, is simply not going to happen. This should not surprise you.

When I created the riddle thread, for instance, people shared on the topic by posting riddles. That was what was appropriate, as they are games. Here, the topic was a public figure, Pope Benedict XVI, and people shared information and views about him and the faith he now officially represents. This is what a message board is for, public discussion over large distances.

One last point (and if this offends, I apologize in advance) this conversation has allowed a civil discussion between Christians of several different denominations. Given the natural tendency for discussions like these to turn ugly, this is a minor miracle. Good show, all.

Isha
Isha
Old Shoe

Apr-30-2005 15:41

Wow Lady grey that is a great site to get info. Not slanted opinons. I figure if you going to learn about chevy cars don't ask a ford guy, do to the source and this source is very straight forward. Thanks!

Isha
Isha
Old Shoe

Apr-30-2005 15:43

Sorry Isha. This and the last comment were totally REVEREND. Don't you hate mess ups like that!

Lady Grey
Lady Grey

Apr-30-2005 15:47

It goes to show, I always look at both sides of an argument and never act without considering how others will react. That does not mean I won't act even though other peoples feeling may be hurt, it just means I think first.

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