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Agency Subscription Limit
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ctown28
ctown28
Tireless Tiger

Feb-16-2008 18:02

I think its time to revisit the idea of subscription limits for onw person within an agency. It's been the rule that one individual person can only sub up to two people in an agency. After that it's considered an unfair advantage. This was the case a while ago, maybe not so much anymore. I currently have 3 subbed detectives, ctown, Brady Quinn and Bonelady. I have never hid that but also never really offered that information. I really wasn't aware of the "rule" that is really impossible to enforce. What about couples that log in from the same IP address, families, etc.

Anyhow, when this was brought to my attention, I decided to move Brady Quinn out of Dawg Pound Investigations to avoid any conflict before omeone complained. I still think this is an unfair rule. The agencies that have "control" of their detectives because they have gone inactive and the directors know the passwords actually gives a better advantage. They got that control, yet someone else has paid their money for it. IMHO, if I want to pay to sub 3 dets, thats my money paying for it. Either lift that silly rule or ban password sharing. I don't see how you can have it both ways. Now remember, this is to be an open debate, if you are looking for an argument, find a different thread, if you disagree but want to be objective, please post and lets have a respectful debate!

Replies

Breitkat
Breitkat
Pinball Amateur

Feb-17-2008 12:36

Squirrel, I think you do have a very good point. We each, as a player, have both privileges and responsibilities here at Sleuth. Some of us have more of both than others. And as we've seen in the past, there are some who consciously choose not to live up to those responsibilities, choosing only to focus on the privileges, which is unfortunate, especially for the rest of us.

I think it comes down to a person's ethics really. What kinds of things are you willing to do with your detective to benefit yourself and/or other people? What kinds of things are you willing to do to harm yourself and/or other people? Unfortunately, this is a tough area to regulate, and even tougher to program for.

As I Director, I have the ability to both do great help and harm to everyone in my Agency, and in the Community at large. I consciously CHOOSE to do my damnedest to do as much help for my agents as I can, and people in general, and harm as few people anywhere, anytime as humanly possible. Not everyone has the same ethical viewpoint as mine.

There are no right or wrong answers. I think people need to ask themselves about this, like you suggested, and think hard about their answers. ;-)

Bonelady
Bonelady
Collector

Feb-17-2008 13:59

Some excellent points here. This is exactly yhe kind of discussion I was looking for when I started this thread last night.

That being said, I dont neccesarily agree that a player has any 'responsibility' to the community, but I feel they do have a certain obligation to any agency that they decide to join. I have been in quite a hadful of agencies and have given each and everyone the time and dedication it deserves. Each player should play the game as she/he sees fit.

People can be active and important members of an agency and not be involved in the Community, there are many who do so. When I first started playing this game I was much less active in the community, but being the social butterfly that I am, I've reached out and made friends with many of you. Those are friendships that I will always cherish. I am no stranger to online communities, another game I found on the internet 9 years ago has earned my some lifelong friends as well.

Now back to the original point, I don't want to see password sharing go away either, my agency asks for it but does not require it. I really wasn't aware of this "rule" of no more that 2 subs when I created this detective or else I probably wouldn't have created her. I know, I have always had the resources to find the threads about it but really never thought it to be an issue. Once it was pointed out to me I imediately contacted Admin about it and he did confirm it to me. After some debate, I decided to move Brady Quinn out of the agency that he created. Sure there are loopholes, that I could have went through, one was to "give" the detective to my co-director. I opted not to do that and to just move one of them as to not ruffle anyones feathers. It would have just been a matter of time before someone complained that I have 3 detectives in one agency. I guess an ounce of prevention is worht a pound of cure so to say. I would really like to have Brady back in DPI, and he may make occasional visits there.

Bonelady
Bonelady
Collector

Feb-17-2008 14:03

(continued)

However, I don't want to do so at the risk of drawing the ire of the Community. Many of us have worked hard at making the Community what it is and I feel as it's something special.

The thing is, if the limit is raised to three, how long until someone says well I have four detectives, why can't we raise it to four? That's something that needs to be thought of. IMHO, I see no difference in having 3 detectives that I "own" than having the passwords of 3 detectives in my agency, especially if one of them leaves the game for RL issues and gives me control of that detective. And when something like that happens, which it has in several agencies, if I decide to resub that persons detective, does that detective become mine in the eyes of the rule or is itstill the persons that created him/her?

Bridget Bard
Bridget Bard
Well-Connected

Feb-17-2008 19:00

This has been a very interesting discussion to read through. I'm part of an agency that I greatly enjoy, and there are evenings when I look forward to the casual chatting that usually happens when several of us are online at the same time. Sometimes I'll even go looking for chats with folks in the broader community if agency members aren't on, and I've really enjoyed chats when friendly folks have PM'd me out of the blue to introduce themselves. Other evenings, however, I just want some quiet "grown-up" time (two children at home), and I'll play Sleuth while I listen to some relaxing music and hope that not too many people PM me. Everyone should be able to take enjoyment from the game as they need and see fit, as long as they aren't hurting others.

So I can easily see some folks belonging to agencies in part because of the socializing, while some folks might want an agency all to themselves (and their alias subs). I don't have a problem either way.

I've been playing about six months now, and I really don't see an agency with one "real" player and multiple alias subs having much of if any advantage over a well-organized, fully-staffed agency filled with independent players (particularly if password sharing is involved). The former agency might have the advantage of a single hive mind simplifying planning, but that player will be slowed down by juggling all the agents himself/herself (not to mention significant r/l financial outlay). The latter agency has to work harder at organization and communication but can get more done simultaneously, particularly if a large agency is working on multiple multi-city hunts at one time.

I think Ben and Sunny and the various moderators have enough to do without requiring more policing. I guess I'd be in favor of relaxing/removing the limit on alias subs in one agency, trusting that most folks are not going to abuse the system. If someone gets out of line, then talk to that person rather than limiting everyone.

Brady Quinn
Brady Quinn
Big Winner

Feb-17-2008 22:32

excellent post Bridget, especially the part about Ben and Sunny having enough to do.

I wanted to chime in again as my third detective and try to clarify my Bonelady post about a players 'responsibility' to the community. I ahd posted taht they have none and it seemed to contradict Breits point about it. Having spoken with her since, yes there is a certain 'responsibilty' but is an ethical one. Granted, there are some unscrupulous people out there, possibly even in this game. Where the responsibility lies is respecting others within the community. There are some within the game that I don't get along with, albeit not many.

I'm not looking for accolades or kudos, but one of the purposes of this thread is to point out the respect I have for the community by moving this detective I am posting with now, out of DPI and into another agency since him being there violated a rule that is based on the honor system. I guess what I'm looking for is approval from the community to move Brady back t DPI where he belongs. without majority approval, I will continue to abide by others wishes. Ok I'll get off my soapbox now!

Lady Jas
Lady Jas
The Chosen One

Feb-17-2008 23:33

The only person that can give you approval is Admin since it is a rule that they made, and us as a community cannot change that rule technically.

It is ultimately up to Admin to keep the rule or get rid of it.

Secret_Squirrel
Secret_Squirrel
Safety Officer

Feb-18-2008 01:30

lol ok well... I know this 'rule is only 'honour' based as I quote from Admin:

4) A single player should not be the primary controller of any more than two detectives in a single agency. The only time when we can positively identify individual players is at the subscription purchase. So in practice, this is interpreted to mean that no more than two detectives in a single agency can be subscribed by the same person.

http://noir.playsleuth.com/map/cityhall/post.spy?id=17427

And maybe it needs clarification from Ben when he isn't so busy trying to get SoM off the ground...

But, I would think until he says otherwise that a groundswell of public popular opinion does not actually constitute a rule change.

*It may very well instigate one*, and more power to the people if that's the case, but until that time I wouldn't be too hasty.

ctown28
ctown28
Tireless Tiger

Feb-18-2008 02:40

Fair enough, Using your word "technically" it is not a rule, if it was a "technical rule" the IP I used would not have allowed me to put the detective in that agency. It seems to be an "rule" that Admin presented and got the community to agree on. I already have "approval" from Admin to keep all three as the initail problem has died down,

The rule is basically based on the honor sytem, Admin doesnt have time to check and see whos IP is logged into what each and everyday. This is no different thna the Arch Villain league where its an unwritten rule not to play sidekick cases as thats an advantage, but some still do.

I would like to think that I have done the honorable thing and asked the communities blessing, I already have Admins

ctown28
ctown28
Tireless Tiger

Feb-18-2008 02:58

I actually should clarify, I contacted Admin about it and after a short debate he didn't think it would be a problem. I still moved one of them, Iwant to move him back, I already have admins approval, I want the communities.


Secret_Squirrel
Secret_Squirrel
Safety Officer

Feb-18-2008 04:41

lol. This is like one of those detective novels where you get all the missing pieces of the puzzle in the final chapter, rather than at the start where everything would have made oh so much more sense... but then like all good mysteries it wouldn't have been half as good a story.

Why didn't you just say, OK I've talked to Ben and he says that having 3 subs in my Agency is cool by him, so why don't we aren't you all doing it?

You made a lot of unnecessary 'rage against the machine' statements at the beginning, based in the surety of already having the machine on side. :s

So, probably what's more interesting to everyone now, and since you've made the statement, is:

IS this in fact a firm and fast rule change or not for the whole Sleuth Community?

Ben?

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