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why the site has not financially taken off
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fred reinfeld
fred reinfeld

Apr-2-2010 15:29

i have been here as a paying subscriber ( under various names ) for 1, 713 days.

this site has issues ( first i think will be moderated off right away which is an issue ).

the site errs when they invite new players and give them no development. the city of new york should be a place where a free player can do all things ( join an agency in new york without a archcriminals in new york , etc. ). the other cities and such would be left to subscribers.

there is also a culture of the cognoscente here...those who are "in" seem to control not only content but act as a cultural barrier to conversation and ideas ( not my way so shut up newbie )

their is favoritism... i had a cat avatar and an "insider mod" sent me a message that i had to change it..yet others have non-1920ish avatars and they remain...

admin also errs when one loses a detective ( three errors ) and then does not allow a transfer of the paid subscription to move to a new detective.

there is more but i already feel the press of the delete button in the hands of the "moderators"..


shell marple
shell marple
Con Artist

Apr-2-2010 17:51

We only delete post or replies if they are abusive, overtly vulgar, or completely worthless. Your post does not seem to meet any of those criteria.
But I would be prepared for others to disagree with your opinions. To challenge your theories, especially if those theories have flaws.
It always amazes me that people have a problem with the free content not being enough. Many games don't give any type of free content. And most that do, give very limited access to their games. I'm not convinced giving more content will encourage those who are unsubscribed to subscribe to the game. Most likely it will only lead to those same people wanting more free stuff later on down the road.
As for the avatar, it needs to be human. Those that are not are being asked to change theirs to comply. There is no issue with the era, although I personally do prefer pics that hold closer to the time frame (My opinion only).
I'm wondering why you aren't posting this as the detective who used the cat picture in the first place. Most people know who are, so I can't see that posting as a different detective produces anything good or useful.

Heimlich VonVictor
Heimlich VonVictor

Apr-3-2010 01:35

While I do agree that there is definitely a group of people who are in and those who are not, I cannot agree that people are being kept out. I can think of several people, some of whom are in my own agency now, who were fairly new to the game just a few months ago. They went into bar chat, posted on the boards, and now they are among the best known Sleuth out there. They win competitions, they participate on the RP board, and the mention of their names is not considered to be obscure at all. In fact, most of these "new" players have sitewide recognition.

I first joined the site in 2007. When I subbed, roamie took me in, trained me, showed me the ropes, and never made me feel like an outsider. For reference, at the time, roamie was the #1 player on the high score board.

I think what you are witnessing is a community that values each other. I'm sure, as you know, a lot of players have come and gone, and it sucks when a player that you enjoy seeing every day disappears or retires. Maybe psychologically some players don't gravitate towards newbies before they "make their bones" because they know how quickly they can disappear.

There is no feasible situation where a player who is trying wouldn't be considered a member of this community.

Anais Nin
Anais Nin

Apr-5-2010 22:26


First off here is a link to the avatar guidelines. It is four years old, and some stuff has changed since Ben made it so we can upload our own avatars, but this is the gist of it.

If Ben or one of the mods could post the revised guidelines somewhere, that would be helpful. :) Thanks!

Secondly, if there was more free stuff, why would people pay to subscribe? Sleuth gives more game play to the unsubscribed than any other game I've seen online. It also entices the unsubscribed to subscribe, or at least stick around. I think that most people here who do subscribe do so because they like the game and the community they have found here. That is the same reason the unsubscribed stay, too.

Finally I agree with Heim. Except for the newbies who happen to be trolls and the immature people who send random nasty PMs to people, newbies are wonderful. And the best way to get to meet people is to drop by Bar Chat. Just be warned that people are often in Chat and doing cases or other stuff at the same time, and I, at least, sometimes forget I'm in there. People who interact with the community are welcomed.

You would be more welcomed if instead of being so negative all the time, you were more positive and posted in other places. Go check out the Games that are going. Add an Excuse or something. As it is, whenever you post on any of your detectives, most everyone thinks "Here he goes again, wonder what's got him riled this time". I'm sure you are a very nice person. But constant complaining does not help anything. Smile! Think of why you are still here after 1,716 days! Join in the fun on other forums!

And now I'm going to bed. I hope that all makes sense!

Sam the Rose
Sam the Rose
Old Shoe

Apr-8-2010 04:51

I've been here longer than you!! 2123 days!
No wonder my kids ask me if I ever get sick of this game; they grew up watching me play it.
I'm active I'm out to lunch I don't check in for ages. the names are as old as me or so new I've never heard them before, but they are mostly nice people who like to play act and love solving puzzles and reading.

Sometimes I hang out in chat to see what is going on and what's new but mostly I play by myself in my GMT+3 time zone.

I anwser newbie messages if they seem like real people reaching out and I"ve met some nice people and some jerks.

the most wonderful thing about sleuth is that is you can most definitely make of it whatever you want it to be: a home, a hangout, an escape hatch.

That's why I keep playing. And sometimes, keep paying! I subcribe when I feel like it and play more or less however I want to.

You must love this game, inspite of your critcism, to have hung on for so long!
Hope you can work it out.

Pinball Amateur

Apr-8-2010 15:15

There are multiple reasons why this site may not have "taken off" as much as some would have liked. Ben has explained his feelings behind all this, and it might be prudent for you to go have a search for that post if you're truly concerned about the financial and economic implications for Sleuth. Most of what I saw in your post did not seem to me to have much connected with any possible financial or economic benefits, which greatly confuses me. Perhaps you might explain yourself better, so we can understand the connection??

As for some of your other comments....

This site has always had 'issues'. It prob'ly always will. Technical, interpersonal, communication, financial, what have you. Hate to break it to you, but there's not many sites out there that DON'T have 'issues'. Get used to it.

It's a misconception on your part to believe that there is no 'development' going on on Sleuth. I'll be the first to admit, new stuff often takes an INCREDIBLY long time to come out around here. And while many of us count gray hairs while we wait, eventually, things DO happen. So, again, get used to it. (Believe me, I am.) Anytime you wanna pull out the programming skills and belly up to the bar to help, we're all ears.

How, exactly, “Admin also errs when one loses a detective (three errors) and then does not allow a transfer of the paid subscription to move to a new detective,” is a bit beyond me. While there have been problems with the process from time to time, it's never been a systemic failure. Again, your statement makes little sense to me.

Pinball Amateur

Apr-8-2010 15:28

It's only recently that the average Joe could upload their own avatar here on Sleuth. As most of us will remember, one had to go through a lengthy (and patience-taxing for many) process where one submitted a picture to an outside source, waited for that pic to be edited and reworked, waited some more for the thing to be uploaded, and then waited even more for Admin to transfer them over to the Sleuth site itself. Today, that wait time is essentially down to zero. But the Avatar loader DOES have caveats attached to it. This isn't Facebook (and never has been). There have ALWAYS been a couple very simple requirements about what a picture should or should not contain (ie. -- a human photo, landscape [I think] view, and black and white coloring). When the Avatar loader was introduced, people were told that if it was abused, it would be discontinued. For the most part, people have followed the rules. Having your own avatar continues to be a privilege. Please don't look a gift horse in the mouth, and abuse that.

Finally, there have been accusations of favoritism of one sort or another around here for a very, very long time. “There's an in-crowd.” “The Mods don't like certain people.” “Unsubbeds are picked on.” Yada, yada, yada. As has been from the start, you get out of this place what you put into it. If you do your best to treat others with decency and respect, they will do likewise to you.


Blair Yeany
Blair Yeany
Safety Officer

This reply has been deleted by a Moderator

Blair Yeany
Blair Yeany
Safety Officer

This reply has been deleted by a Moderator


Apr-16-2010 17:52

I believe the game have changed with time...
It seems like the whole community now realizes that our numbers are going down, and the interest of taking care of each other seem to have grown up from this.
I have a strong feeling that people are much more interested in looking after one another now, compared to previous periods, where the number of people might have been bigger.
In my opinion the community have matured, and the throwing of dirt after one another that might have been in the past, are much more rarely seen now.
So, honestly, if your post had been made a couple of years ago, I might have agreed with you, but now, I think that you have not been around to have realized a change have appeared.

Sir William Weine
Sir William Weine
Lucky Stiff

Apr-25-2010 01:45

Just my tuppence worth:

"give them no development": The others are hotly against it since a lot were helped by others. I didn't get as much help (see my experience points) and that can be seen as the beauty of it. Having to figure things out for yourself will help you figure out independent strategies, which you can then share with others.

( not my way so shut up newbie ): I beg your pardon??? I have never seen this written on the threads of Sleuth and I hope I never will! That is a contradiction in your idea, as you say mods here are, to say the least, evil, but they are the ones who DELETE that stuff, NOT WRITE IT THEMSELVES!

"insider mod": This seems to be saying that mods are insiders turning a blind eye to friends writing vulgar things. No. I'm sure every Sleuth who has written on the boards has had one post deleted. Probably even moderators themselves! Yes! That can happen!

New York being a free city would still not much allow AV hunts, since these require multiple cities. Agencies have the main aspect of treasure hunts, and these would be snapped up in seconds if newbies had that amount of agencies in NY. They are far and few between by all standards sometimes, and experts based in NY would be able to finish before a newbie, boring the new guys to leaving Sleuth.

If you wish to see pastures greener and more varied Mr. Reinfeld, I suggest Shades of Mystery. Oh, and also, the first post (the one you write to start a new thread) cannot be deleted, I don't think. Am I right, mods?

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