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ctown28
ctown28
Tireless Tiger

Apr-16-2009 10:18

I wanted to start this thread to get some opinions from others in the community about the advantages that some players/agencies have over one another. I am not saying my thoughts on them are right or wrong nor am I saying that anybody else’s is. In fact, you may see me flip flop on the topics from time to time as I sometimes like to look at both sides.

What I do not want to see here is for this to turn into a flame war and/or any name calling. Remember, it doesn’t matter if you have been here for 10 days or 1000 days. Every opinion of someone that pays to play the game carries just as much weight as the next person.

A good debate can be healthy for the community and I ask you to all stay respectful here even if you disagree with something that is said here. I will start with some topics and would like to see them discussed and if anyone thinks I missed something or would like to add a topic, by all means go for it.



Replies

nicnic
nicnic
Battered Shoe

Apr-19-2009 19:35

When these issues were being discussed in the past, there were 100s if not 1000s of active players. The game was extremely competitive. That’s simply not the case now. What made me think about this was when al-Q went inactive, I contemplated keeping it going on my own and subbing all my fellow directors so I could keep it alive. Was this to assembly line my way to the top of the charts? No. I just didn’t want to let it go. And at the time, recruiting newbies was a fruitless, if not impossible task. I didn’t do it, not because of morals (I didn’t even think about that, the game was dying), but because I had also lost the will to play, but I still refused to leave :-) I started to wonder today if I had done that, and al-Q had 5 active detectives today that were all being played by me, would I be sitting here on the receiving end of my own philosophical beating stick? The game is moving forward, but there certainly aren’t dozens of newbies beating down the doors of agencies right now. Maybe we can re-hash this discussion in 6 months :-)

Sean/Kenb, please do not leave. That is the last thing we want.

I know I may seem like I’ve waffled a little bit, which isn’t true. I still stand by my previous philosophical ramblings from before, however I was just really not that worked up over any of it. I think my true feelings were pretty much in line with what Mak posted. And when I thought about it a little bit more, I felt I may have been a bit unfair.

However, there is one thing I do think is extremely important for keeping the spirit of the community alive: Veterans, please be careful of how much help we give to newbies. That includes access to fancy helpers/case-solvers and revealing some of the secrets of the game. It is much better for the community in the long run for people to experience the game for themselves. It will give them more incentive to stick around.

In closing, ctown you are NOT getting a cape!


Lolita Marinez
Lolita Marinez
Sleuth About Town

Apr-19-2009 19:45

It appears my eloquence has left me this morning. Nothing is coming out how I want it to sound.

I have PM'd Sean King in the hopes that he will read it. I echo the sentiments of luc and Sindy and I am sad that someone would leave over a discussion like this.

And SS if you miss that spittoon one more time and I have to mop the porch I'm gonna hide your terbaccy on ya where you'll never find it and make you mop the floor for a month!

ctown28
ctown28
Tireless Tiger

Apr-19-2009 19:52

When I first was creating this thread, I had some reservations about whether or not I should. The reservations I had have no come to fruition. I was not makingthe thread to single out or attack any one person or agency. It was meant to be a discussion and that is it. I now regret that I ever made the thread and am contemplating taking the entire thing down, but I don't think that would be fair to some of the people that voiced their opinions

While we are at a point in the game where we have topics like what can we do to help the game, this obviously is not one of them. Ken, I hope you reconsider your decision to leave the game, I never like to see anyone leave the game, espescially when it is someone that obviously enjoys the game. There are much bigger problems that many of us have to deal with on a daily basis. If my biggest problem in the world right now is if somebody is jumping up the high score boards on a gem I play on the internet, I would consider things to be going extremely well for me.

Nic made some great points on her last post. What I was trying to do in this thread other than getting opinions was try to light a spark and get some passion back in the game and on the boards. I think it was going well for a while, but the end result now is something that I did not want to see. (I am talking about a player leaving here, not about the not getting the cape thing, though I don't like to see that either!)

shell marple
shell marple
Con Artist

Apr-19-2009 21:36

I hope you don't remove this thread ctown. I don't play anymore, but I do check in from time to time to see what is happening in sleuthville. I must say when I first starting reading this post my pulse started racing a little faster. The passion is back, the community seems to be pulling together, ideas and conversation is flowing freely... (something that has been lacking).

As for a player leaving, hopefully Ken will reconsider. No one wants to see anyone leave this game, especially due to a misunderstanding (for lack of a better term).

As for helping the game, I read plenty of great ideas for the issues that do concern the players of sleuth. Not discussing something in an attempt not to ruffle any feathers in my opinion only leads to the boards becoming a quiet lonely place. And those very quiet boards lead to a very quiet village.




shell marple
shell marple
Con Artist

Apr-19-2009 21:51

One last thing, I do agree with nicnic that these are old issues that are not as relevant today as they were back when there where more players and a highly competitive atmosphere. But I do believe that there needs to be more disscussions on these here boards. I always knew as a director when my agency was in trouble and ready to lose members.. How.... the agnecy message boards got very quiet. I have always thought that the message boards and the interaction between the players has always been the backbone of the game... When they are upbeat and lively... the game tends to turn that direction. And when they get ugly or just plain cease to exsist so does the game.

Lolita Marinez
Lolita Marinez
Sleuth About Town

Apr-20-2009 02:29

Please don't remove it ctown. It is a great discussion and allowed people a voice over some issues that concern them and I am so pleased that it stayed as a civil friendly discussion.

I think it just goes back to the old adage of "You can't please all the folk all the time"

Vampiric Smile
Vampiric Smile
Safety Officer

Apr-20-2009 04:40

Unfortunately, judging by the results, it is obvious that the target of this thread was not accomplished. SS is right pointing the antithesis between the intention of ctown and the outcome of the discussion. In addition it is really sad the fact that a honorable player like kenb felt threatened by the post (it is true that parallelisms like “snake in the grass” were out of the spirit of the post) and decided to quit playing the game (I really hope that he will reconsider)
Jesus said that we should judge the tree by the fruits the tree is producing and I feel that the fruit after the post of Kenb is very bitter indeed. Better the post to be removed


Sleuth Sindy
Sleuth Sindy
Pinball Wizard

Apr-20-2009 05:05

Is that what offended Ken? My reference to "snakes in the grass?"

I wasn't thinking of anyone in general or specifically when I wrote that. I wasn't even thinking of a person. I was merely making reference to the fact that there is always *something* that we dislike about everything. It's just a fact of life.

I certainly was not casting aspersions on anyone. If someone took my analogy in that way, then I am very, very sorry.

topkebab
topkebab
Lucky Stiff

Apr-20-2009 05:10

I've been dragging my heels, reading what other people have been saying and trying to determine my own position on some subjects that i've not really thought about much before. So here's my 2c worth.

But firstly i'd like to say this:

Kenb, i'm very sorry to hear about your surgical woes. But... you want to leave? Are you SERIOUS? By my count this thread had 6 pages and 19 posters before you, discussing several topics not just YOUR multiple subs. (yes ppl I am that sad, i counted them all :P) How you managed to read all of it and then think that it's a direct attack on YOU, i'm not sure. Personally I didn't even think of you until i read your post. Is someone gonna tell me that i'm just so out of touch with what everyone else in the community knows to be true, that i didn't realise this is an "anti-kenb" thread?

"Yes, I am one of those sinful, cheating, dishonorable, snake in the grass people"... now correct me if i'm wrong, but i didn't see any of these descriptors mentioned by anyone else anyway in reference to people with multiple subs.

Of course you could have written a reply explaining your situation, i don't think many of us here would be clammouring for your expulsion. Instead you say you've decided to leave, which doesn't help this discussion, the game, or to be honest, yourself.

I hope you come back, it's just silly to leave because you read too much into a generalised community discussion.

topkebab
topkebab
Lucky Stiff

Apr-20-2009 05:11

Now onto my thoughts about advantages:

Case Helpers.
I do think that helpers should not be easily available to newbies early on, since they stunt the learning and thinking process, and create the situation where a newbie can't solve a case without it cos they don't know how to use paper and pen. Having said that, i don't see the problem for the 'old folks' using them, imho i personally would be playing much less since each case would take me longer without the helper that i use. I haven't tried Huglovers' program, mainly because i heard about how it works and that's not how i process my cases (i mean the sequence of who i ask etc). But I don't begrudge others using it cos they can do what they like. And if Huglover (or others) want to use the skills that they have to "improve" their gameplay, and then give away all their hard work for free, that's not something i object strongly to.

VH Helpers.
imho a waste of time for old folks since all you need to do is look at the map of the city you are currently in. Although i applaud those who take the time and effort to create them, i don't use them myself. For newbies... well certainly it would help them and again they would stunt the learning and thinking process.

Little job answers.
Personally i'm not a particular detective/noir story fan, i haven't read most of the books/authors mentioned and some i've never heard of. *waits for the boos to die down* It's nice to have the answers all in one place but in this day and age all i'd have to do is google the answers. There's just no way around the fact that they aren't really a challenge no matter what.

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