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ctown28
ctown28
Tireless Tiger

Apr-16-2009 10:18

I wanted to start this thread to get some opinions from others in the community about the advantages that some players/agencies have over one another. I am not saying my thoughts on them are right or wrong nor am I saying that anybody else’s is. In fact, you may see me flip flop on the topics from time to time as I sometimes like to look at both sides.

What I do not want to see here is for this to turn into a flame war and/or any name calling. Remember, it doesn’t matter if you have been here for 10 days or 1000 days. Every opinion of someone that pays to play the game carries just as much weight as the next person.

A good debate can be healthy for the community and I ask you to all stay respectful here even if you disagree with something that is said here. I will start with some topics and would like to see them discussed and if anyone thinks I missed something or would like to add a topic, by all means go for it.



Replies

Sleuth Sindy
Sleuth Sindy
Pinball Wizard

Apr-19-2009 06:18

I agree with Squirrel in that I think it's truly sad that Sleuth is not and most likely will never be played the way it was intended to be.

I recently started a new detective who is not in an agency. I'm solving all my cases the old-fashioned way - pencil and paper - and taking notes as I honestly don't remember anymore how many suspects are in each level and how many of those will have fake/real alibis. I have my notes somewhere, but honestly I'm enjoying figuring it out for myself all over again. I have to say my enjoyment of Shades was totally destroyed when it was pointed out to me that there is a "gimme" in the game.

I think it's sad that a detective isn't "ranked" for how many cases he/she has solved on his/her own - but rather merely on how many cases he/she has "processed."

However, I realize you can't control how other people play their game, and just as there is no perfect job, unfortunately there is no perfect game/community. There's always a snake or two (or three) in the grass.

In the end, I think people who solve their cases using the "assembly line" method or use automated helpers that practically solve the case for you are cheating themselves most of all. They will never know the elation of solving a case with a charming female detective in London with three notes and three or four suspects using the Librarian as their alibi all on their own. :)

Lolita Marinez
Lolita Marinez
Sleuth About Town

Apr-19-2009 10:07

Ok I can see nic's point with the analogy. No it is not any less illegal just because there is no cop around to catch you. And if there is a known case of it being enforced and someone being removed from an agency/game/subscription whatever then I guess it is a rule.

*bows out gracefully. Hey I can curtsy now that I have my beautiful new dress! A curtsy in a Possum Bomber Jacket and my knickers didn't look so good!

Sean King
Sean King
Nomad

Apr-19-2009 16:17

This is Kenb. I check the message boards maybe once a week, so I just now stumbled across this very disturbing thread.

Yes, I am one of those sinful, cheating, dishonorable, snake in the grass people that have multiple subs. I have had a lot of time on my hands due to 4 consecutive surgeries that do not seem to be working out at this point. Sleuth has been a great source of entertainment and a way to get my mind off of physical pain. Evidently I got carried away with subbing and solving cases. I am carrying 8 subscriptions right now.

Thank you all for helping me to see the light. Ctown is right in saying that no one should spend 12 hrs. a day on Sleuth. And please forgive me for occasionally going on a treasure hunt when just solving cases got too boring. Now the hundreds of agencies currently doing hunts won't have to worry about me taking advantage.

I suppose that I could carry on with 2 subs and just do a limited number of cases as has been suggested. But I don't feel as though I fit in any more with righteous, honorable people such as yourselves.

So now feel free to say anything you want about me because, believe me, I will not be signing on to Sleuth again by these 8 names or by any other.

Secret_Squirrel
Secret_Squirrel
Safety Officer

Apr-19-2009 17:36

an abbreviated version of a very long post I lost coz it took me so long to write it I'd timed out :)

... to lose players coz we keep dragging up all these old huckleberries that I've read over and over, over the past few years is really quite pointless, isn't it!

In fact it's the antithesis, I suppose, of what ctown was trying to achieve with this post.

All it does is give us all chance (me included) to wax lyrical about what we don't like. Great!

Ultimately these issues would be moot if there was an adequate set of game rules. That's been said before. But it makes it no less true. Down the bottom yonder somewhere near the code of conduct.

You are expected to approach game play in an ethical and respectful manner and to adhere to any posted rules or rules posted in the future." [from the Code of Conduct]

This small statement in the Code of COnduct probably doesn't come up to scratch, when people copy and paste the rule only to have someone else copy and post the proviso to that rule made X months down the line.

I would like to see these questions become irrelevant once and for all by establishing a set of clear rules that can be located easily and are updated regularly when rules change.

This might include that third party 'Sleuth Helpers' are allowed, password sharing is not (which by the way the Code of Conduct clearly states already), and that players may subscribe as many times as they like, but that they can only have two agents in any one agency.

It would also help if the majority of any rules were mechanically reinforceable.

But a rule is a rule if it is clearly stated on the Game Rules Page.

Simple.

Secret_Squirrel
Secret_Squirrel
Safety Officer

Apr-19-2009 17:44

Then all of us old timers can sit and wax lyrical about the way the game 'should' be played and 'spirit' and 'ethics' and 'whatnot' as much as we like and new players can say 'tough luck, go read the rules gramps', and we'd go back to chewin' our terbaccy and rockin in our chairs.

luc pfeiffer
luc pfeiffer
Red-Nosed

Apr-19-2009 18:56

to Mr. King -- I'm sorry to hear that the surgical procedures are not working out right now. I am glad to hear that you feel Sleuth is helping you, even if only to keep all the marbles rolling around. I don't think anyone would have a problem with your 8 characters, per se, especially if they are spread out over several agencies or unaligned with any. You seem to have been around for a while so this can't be the first time you are hearing of this controversy, is it? And if it isn't, it is too bad that you are letting the stridentness of other people's voicing of their opinions chase you off. It seems a shame that anyone would do that rather than just ignoring them and enjoying the pleasures that they find in the game. I hope that you do decide to return to our community and make it brighter by your interaction with us in the future.

luc pfeiffer
luc pfeiffer
Red-Nosed

Apr-19-2009 18:58

to Squirrel -- you forgot the part about peering over our granny glasses as we read the rules and the twelve feet of snow on the ground outside the window as we rock those chairs back and forth, back and forth... Mind the cat's tail, ouch, too late.

Sleuth Sindy
Sleuth Sindy
Pinball Wizard

Apr-19-2009 19:24

@ Sean King

I'm very sorry you have interpreted this thread the way you did. My impression is that this thread was meant to be a *discussion* about the topic rather than an attack on anyone, and I thought it was very successful. When I look through these posts, what I see is that NOBODY is really TH'ing in the way Ben originally meant for Treasure Hunts to be played.



nicnic
nicnic
Battered Shoe

Apr-19-2009 19:33

I was thinking about this a bit today, and I think I was a little bit too harsh in my previous posts. While I am a Sleuth-purist, and I gave my opinions on the matter, to be honest with you, I really don't feel very emotional about any of this. While I stand by the things I said, it is more philosophical than anything else.

And we certainly don't want people to leave over this. That is actually the opposite of what we want for the game. And these points being discussed here, while valid, are not, at least in my opinion, the biggest issues we are facing in Sleuth right now. And in hindsight it seems silly that I even posted anything on the topic. Because I really don't care that much lol. I haven't been trying to soar to the top of the High Scores list in quite a while, so none of this really has any effect on me, personally. Would I like Sleuth to be pure and played for what a lot of us feel was its original intent? Sure. Is it a huge problem if it's not and there are helpers and people doing 100s of cases a week with 5 subbed detectives? Nah. More power to them for keeping their personal interest alive. And like SS said, without a clear set of rules, it becomes difficult for anyone to judge what is right and what is wrong.

If I remember correctly, Huglover released the first version of her program last summer. She was never secretive about it, it was publically announced. We had the opportunity to discuss it then. I posted my personal opinions on the matter (that I wasn’t a fan) and also exchanged a few PMs with Hug on the matter. No one came out in an uproar back then about it, and now people have been using it for almost a year. I don’t really think it’s for any of us to say whether the plethora of case-solvers/helpers out there is wrong. It’s really up to Ben. And is this really something we want Ben to be fretting over right now? Being a purist, I don’t like them, but who am I to say whether it’s OK or not? Or that one is OK and another isn’t?


nicnic
nicnic
Battered Shoe

Apr-19-2009 19:34

And people jumping up the High Scores List, does anyone who is not one of those people really care? LOL. A lot of us stopped caring about that a while ago and just look to come to Sleuth to relax, play a few cases, socialize, and have fun. And ironically if you look at those that are trying to move up the High Scores boards, none have come out to say that they are being cheated in any fashion or can’t compete with people because they are cheating, so why would the rest of us care?

I’m not saying that everything that has been discussed has not been valid, just perhaps a bit irrelevant in the current climate of the game. For a lot of us that have hung on by the skin of our teeth during slow times, it’s just nice to see people playing and enjoying the game.

In hindsight, I’m not sure this thread was a great idea. It’s probably not helping our cause of making the boards positive and inviting, and quite frankly some of these discussions have been beaten to death over the years and I question their relevance in the current climate of the game.



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