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All I Want for Christmas is a Shady Cap
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Lady of Shadows

Dec-15-2007 12:59

So, as you may have noticed the "Beating a Dead Horse" discussion has been archived. (A post started by Roamie about the perceived steepness of Shady prices). Be assured that everyone's opinion was read and appreciated here in the Sleuth Admin household. We would like to put an offer on the table: cap at 1 mil.

Please let us know what you think and based on your posts, we'll make a decision by Christmas morning.*

This message is not intended to promote and/or belittle Christmas. You do not have to celebrate Christmas or any other winter holiday in order to post here.



Dec-19-2007 05:10

Like Breitkat, I thought it was a cap to wear. It would have to be black of course and I'd like the Triads colour/design please.

I've read all the posts and there are some interesting (and deep) thoughts here. For my part, I'd say keep Shady the mean nasty offensive guy that he is - oh, by the way have you seen his house! It's spectacular - not gold plated but solid gold everywhere! Arches, columns, not just ensuite bathrooms but ensuite swimming pools as well!

I retired/resurrected my detective once and kept my fingers crossed that I wouldn't come out of it with too many heavy losses and I was fortunate. That was a very nasty scare and has taught me a lesson. I have Zero FAs now and intend to keep it that way. If I'm daft enough to get an FA I'll go straight to the nasty man and pay him immediately, I won't wait til I get 2 as I did in the past.

I'm just "toddling" along in this game. I belong to a diddy agency that does nothing other than store equipment and that suits me fine. This means that there's no agency clocking up loads of dosh for The Nasty Man but I'd still rather keep what happens at the moment - a retirement/resurrection option and no cap.

Regarding retirement/resurrection, as I say I got caught out with this once and decided that I'd not risk that again either. Not sure how ctown28 would put money in safe and put nice stuff in safe before retiring, don't remember having that option. Certainly don't think that option should be available anyway. If you try to to to HQ or Apartment to offload then perhaps you should be permanently retired!

Retirement/resurrection is certainly an option for those who can't or won't afford to pay The Nasty Man and in fact provides a "cap" of sorts. You pay loads of dosh to TNM or risk losing some pretty good equipment as well as contacts. I think that's a pretty fair compromise.

So, my vote - no cap of TNM but keep the retirement/resurrection option.


Dec-20-2007 11:23

Well, I’ll keep my comments short and sweet. I think a freeze would be good. Once you’ve made an accusation the amount would stay the same, no matter how long you wait to pay him off. This would benefit all players, new or old timers. But, again the Shady Guy has kept me on my toes and made my heart go crazy a few time...he-he!

Washed Up Punter

Dec-20-2007 13:07

I like that, DaRu. I still am not convinced that a cap on Shady would be a benefit to the game itself other than to a few of its players, but if some effort was ultimately made to rein him in, that wouldn't be so bad.

Not sure how it would work with the programming, though. Maybe you could sort of register your FA with Shady and sign an IOU or something that would freeze the rate. If that were done, maybe you could be able to freeze it at one FA, but if you get two before you paid off the first one, all bets would be off and you'd have to pay what you would normally owe at your experience level at the time of the 2nd FA. You could then sign another IOU and freeze it at the new cost.

Which of course, would lead to the question of retirement/resurrection. You could skip off to the land of the dead or accidentally meet your demise with that dreaded 3rd FA with a big IOU hanging out there and then resurrect yourself. I would hope in that case that Shady would not forget and the IOU would stick.

Resurrection would be a viable yet still painful option and the cost of paying off FAs would still be commensurate to experience level, at least at the time of that 2nd FA, but not cause further damage while you worked to pay him off.

Bigger Mac
Bigger Mac

Dec-21-2007 01:10

No - one likes a never ending bill, especially one where you're slogging your butt off to pay and the thing is still rising, where's the justice in that :)

1 Mill cap................ Nice and simple!!!


Dec-21-2007 01:21

I really like Treschaude's expansion on Da Ru's idea.

I truly think capping Shady is a mistake but I like the IOU freeze idea and the rest of Treschaude's suggestions.

I consider the Shady FA payoff's to fall into the "if it aint broke dont fix it" category but I think the IOU idea would be a nice expansion.

Bigger Mac
Bigger Mac

Dec-21-2007 05:28

' I consider the Shady FA payoff's to fall into the "if it aint broke dont fix it" category ...........................'.

Obviously not a problem for you so hey lets not fix it eh.............. what about the others, for whom it is broke?

R Anstett
R Anstett

Dec-21-2007 15:50

One last thought on this thread for me.

Shady is only broke if you want to see your name up on the top of the leader boards.

For someone with 8 million XP who does not care, and can not afford to pay off Shady, simply FA out. Resurrect, you lose x% of your XP points.

Immediately FA out again, you lose x% of your XP points.

Rinse and repeat.

You do this till you drive the cost down to what ever you want to. Because the cost of paying off your FA is based on your CURRENT experience points and not the level you were at when you got them.

If a cap goes into effect, you can not lower the cost of Shady in this way, nor can you if the IOU system were to be used and the cost is pegged at where you were when you earned that FA.

There are lots of ways to get around Shady being so expensive as we stand now.

It is a choice, do you want to keep your name on the high score boards? or pay off Shady. I think the game works well with it being one or the other rather than changing it so that a select few players can have both.

Lady Emerald Devon
Lady Emerald Devon

Dec-21-2007 16:38

Ran: I think that is a great idea for players who have all there skills and don't mind losing contacts but I think it's the newer players who leave the game because of Shady's prices.

Stooby may believe it aint broke but as Big Mac replied, what about the others.

And this brings me to exactly what I said originally:

"It's easy to see the ones the win, Casinos make a big deal of those ones so you can't miss it. What is harder to see and what you don't see, is the people that lose, and they are the majority.''

I think that is the situation we have here, we see the people who say are doing well and don't mind Shady's high prices, we're not seeing the ones who leave and never come back.

Now, I don't know about the figures and facts and I don't how many people have quit the game because of Shady and retirement but I do know of a few.

This means that for some, maybe a lot more than you realise, the system as it is now, it NOT working.
With high Shady prices and no cap OR with retirement which doesn't only lose a player experience*, it means the game is not working well with it being one or the other.

Also, I don't think that a cap is the best solution rather part of a solution.
I think changing the formula of what he charges and then perhaps capping that would be much better.

*Loss of 25% of their Experience Points
Loss of 90% of their Money
Loss of Skill Points commensurate to Experience Points lost. Since no skills are lost in the process, this usually means the detective will start with negative available skill points. (for a newish detective, this woud be really hard!)
Loss of one randomly selected piece of Equipment
Loss of all Contacts

Lady Emerald Devon
Lady Emerald Devon

Dec-21-2007 16:43

(I also like the idea of a freeze, I think it's unfair that his price increases so much when you're doing cases, this is like how the Government used to charge interest on Student Loans while a person was still studying but once again, if the formula was changed and was made fairer then perhaps a freeze wouldn't be needed.
As it is now, with a $512 increase to an F.A, well that makes Shady lower than a Government dept to me ;))

Safety Officer

Dec-21-2007 19:22


So since everyone's having a second bite of the cherry.

**AND I still encourage people just to post FOR or AGAINST rather than say nothing!**

The freeze is an OK idea, but how do you work out where you re-start from once you've paid off the frozen FA is beyond me. Do you start from Zero? And base the price of your next FA purely on the XP you've accrued since your last FA? That's problematical.

The freeze will work pretty well for new players. So I like it in that respect. But for old players, if you false at 10 mil get your HUGE Shady price well you're only freezing something you'll never be able to (or be less than willing to) pay back anyway (apparently).

Another possibility and I'm not sure if Ben & Sunny want another new idea, so much as they want an opinion on theirs :D, but if we have Cairo, and we already have to do all those favours for shoes etc. Why not just add to the bottom of the list: 'Shady reduction 25%'. 'Shady reduction 50%'. 'Shady reduction 75%'.

Or why not make the Villian Hunts worth something too (and this just isn't coz I've done lots) you know why shouldn't someone who's done 20 or 30 or 40 hunts get a Shady Price Reduction? Rather than just stockpile Uber gear they're not using.

Anyway, coupled with an adjustment in how Shady's prices accrue. [Because I don't see any reason why the formula couldn't be rejigged (again) to decrease the rate at which Shady's price accrues. Eg the higher XP you have the lower the rate of accrual.]

Since it's generally the people with more XP encouraging a change, and they are the ones with less to do these days, then why not make a reduction - in part - incentive based.

I'd much rather have people doing something proactive - something that increased people's interest in the game itself - towards reducing their Shady debt.

Don't forget, you can just say 'FOR' or AGAINST'.

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