Sleuth Home - Message Boards - The Gumshoe Lounge

May-27-2005 14:58

Did you know that . . . . ? I am posting facts about religious people and saints. Why don't you? Share some. This could be a great discussion on popes, nuns, saints etc.

May-28-2005 13:15

The last time they came by, they asked me what I was doing. I honestly answered that I was watching a movie. As they didn't want to let me off the hook, they decided to test me and asked what movie I was watching. I honestly answered, what movie I was actually watching....The Devils Advocate.

They never came by again.

I unintentionally resolved that problem.

May-28-2005 15:12

I was baptized catholic and went to catholic school for six years. I learned that I really loved Jesus and hated religion! When I was around 13 I went to a priest (circa 1963) and asked him the question I could not get stright in my head " If Jesus suffered and died on the cross to forgive our sins, why are unbaptized babies condemmed to purgatory if they die?" His answer was all humans are born with the original sin of Adam and Eve. "Well why are they not forgiven by Jesus' sacrifice", I asked. He told me I had been possesed by Satan and could no longer practice as a Catholic, and I never wanted to after that. I am a follower of Jesus and know His teachings, but I am non secular since that time.

May-28-2005 17:08

Marylou: I have just about every Bible version under the sun (including the Books of the Apocrypha and The Book of Mormon), as the Bible and Biblical history are of great interest to me. I have studied with both Mormons and JWs as I am always interested in learning about different religions and beliefs. Anyway, the point I am rather slowly getting to is that the JWs I have spoken to have actively encouraged me to cross-reference between different translations. I am yet to find any serious contradictions between the translations that aren't grammatical or simply different renderings, except that where 'Jehovah' is present in the NWT, 'Yahweh' will be in the Jerusalem Bible (Catholics) and 'Lord' will be in the King James (C of E).

Basically, regarding both Mormans and JWs, I think it takes a tremendous amount of courage to stand at someone's door and try to explain your beliefs to them. For that, they win my profound respect, whether or not I might agree or disagree with any particular doctrine.

May-28-2005 17:14

Mrs Zane: I remember asking a local vicar what some of the imagery meant in St John's Revelation, and he said they were the ramblings of an old man! : o ) Although I had no religion to be excommunicated from, I was quite upset that, as a teenager who had bothered to read the Revelation (which is a pretty confusing book!), my request for higher knowledge was dismissed so flippantly by a man of the cloth. Fortunately, I have since found many a better guide who is willing to offer a better explanation of their various holy books : o )

May-28-2005 17:44

M.Zane....you were 13 and posessed by Satan? Ooooh noo.

May-28-2005 17:44

I certainly hope that this priest didn't tech other kids. I mean, seriously.

May-28-2005 18:28

On the subject of winding up Jehovah's Witnesses, I find the bible thing very effective, but if I cant be bothered I just tell them I'm Catholic (I'm not) and that gets rid of them pretty quick.

May-28-2005 19:00

Here's one point of religious history that I discovered recently. You all may find this interesting, especially since it's a rare reversal of the common advice given to the religious (especially Christians) to take religous writings more metaphorically than literally.

It has to do with Hell.

The word Hell is descended from the nordic Hel, which was the name for the goddess of the frozen wastes (and clearly not the ancestry of the hell we all know and fear, for a variety of reasons). In the translation from the Greek, the word Hell was used as the primary replacement for another word, Gehenna. The origins of the word "Gehenna" are very amusing.

Gehenna is a translation into greek of the Hebrew word Gai-Ben-Hinnom, literally "Valley of the Sons of Hinnom". This was a real area outside of Jerusalem's wall where once upon a time the worshippers of Molech performed their rites (I won't name them as children are no doubt reading this, but let's just say that Milton made him into a demon with good reason). After the fall of Tophet, their shrine to Molech, the land was considered cursed. As such, they used it to burn trash and, occasionally, the bodies of those who were denied proper burial. The fires were stoked almost non-stop, from what I've read, right outside the walls of Jerusalem. The burned were criminals and heretics, people that were condemned to Gai-Ben-Hinnom for their sins. Remember that in this time period, being denied proper burial was about as bad a punishment as you could get.

In essence, this information states the real nature of Hell. It's the flip side of the oft-used "metaphoric" analysis. Hell is very real, so real in fact that it's on this Earth. It's just not all that religion makes it out to be.

Sorry for the long post, but abridging history tends to be a bad idea.

May-28-2005 20:15

Very interesting! When you say Milton made him into a demon, are you referring to Milcom?

May-28-2005 21:40

No. I'm referring to John Milton's "Paradise Lost", It and Dante's "Divine Comedy" are largely responsible for the dramatization of the concept. Dante gave it structure while Milton gave it social heirarchy.