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Scripted Mystery 2
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Eden Zweig
Eden Zweig
Nomad

Feb-17-2012 14:54

I have an SM case (inc. h.), where the game came to a dead end at the 5th suspect.
I am trying to understand what we can rely on scripted mysteries, other than common sense, cause what happens is this:

- You figure out the answers to some questions without asking, but the case forces you to ask the question anyway, cause it unlocks another level in the game, not only answering an obvious question but also introducing new suspects.

What I'm trying to say is the game determines the pacing, and asking your questions economically, that just doesn't depend on you.

Now I have a suspect who keeps clamming on the only question I have, townies won't yield a thing.

I previously solved a SM, where the guy who clammed answered my question when I backspaced and posed the question again (either that or I left the page/refreshed it, got back and asked the same question and this time got an answer)

But this guy will not "budge".

Is this one of the normalcies of SMs, should I quit it and try again, or is there something I'm most probably missing ?(city hall won't say a thing too)

Replies

Fleur Veritas
Fleur Veritas
Vigilante

Feb-17-2012 16:51

Did you check with the various town contacts? Perhaps those who could be associated with any physical evidence you might have found? Also if any of the factions are involved it might be worth checking out the faction leaders at their respective HQs.

If it is one of the SMs from the early days of Noir, then there might also be some guidance for it on the Sleuthtips website (www.sleuthtips.com).

Hope you are able to solve the problem - good luck :)




Eden Zweig
Eden Zweig
Nomad

Feb-17-2012 18:03

Had I waited 10-15 minutes or so I'd see your response but I made a false accusation and then reopened and finished it this time.

Feedback:
-----------

1. I had checked with all the townies in my first take. And the evidence required new suspects for evaluation and that was strictly my problem) What I hadn't checked with was the factions (I checked them in two of the doomsayer trilogy SMs and I had come up with no info - I thought faction HQ's were of no use, thank you, it seems they are, not in this particular mystery, though)

2. BTW it was "A Conundrum Almighty" that I played. The SM made me go through the exact same path as before, which I did.

3. The 5th suspect talked this time despite the fact that I had to follow the same order of questioning.

So I think we can make a generalization that it was just a random but untimely clam up and this can happen in scripted mysteries.

The thing is, the script forces you to ask those questions. I find that illogical. If one is going to write such a mystery then one should be careful about the info/number of question distribution. Cause I had to kind of scold the guy, the suspect before we really got down to it. Those questions were so useless, I mean. Nevertheless, it was such a beautiful SM, one written by Phoenix Shadow.

Eden Zweig
Eden Zweig
Nomad

Feb-17-2012 18:04

Oh.. and thank you Fleur :))

Joey
Joey "Bulldog" Bane
Washed Up Punter

Feb-18-2012 00:55

Mate, in my opinion what you're actually missin' here is persuation power. When one makes an SM he/she can set a number of questions you can ask before having to make a persuation attempt for a suspect/witness and then sets the difficulty of that pressure check. From your description I'd say this what happened: you had to press stronger suspects than your rags allowed on that particular case difficulty.

Fleur is right however regarding the fact that there are key points in mysteries where you seem to be stuck (meaning there are no questions to ask at suspects) and at those points you need to start inquiring around the town to anyone possible.

Regarding the comment on the necessity to ask all of the questions, you have to understand the soft has limited mechanics. Can't actually read your mind and go ahead opening itself away even if you are a genuine Sherlock Holmes :)

Eden Zweig
Eden Zweig
Nomad

Feb-18-2012 04:07

Haha that' right :)

I know Fleur is right, I just wanted to let her know I did all that, so that she could maybe tell me what might be wrong.

As for persuasion:

I have all the charm skills, plus hypnotism and surveillance. The faction skills were not even required in the game, so it's the charms skills one has to make sure to have acquired.

Would you please give some more advice as to how to understand which SM would require more than one's capabilities?

Or other ways to improve persuasion skills? Better gear than the ones I have now maybe, 20+ charm gear, for instance? Would that make a change, do you think?


Eden Zweig
Eden Zweig
Nomad

Feb-18-2012 08:39

I did "the Executor's End" and it was fascinating (all hail Heimlich von Victor :) ). Since this one was harder than the conundrum and took much longer to finish, I believe the answer to my question has more to do with the script than my abilities? Or just dumb luck is all there is to it.

*I wish I could write mysteries like that*

cfm
cfm
Nomad

Feb-18-2012 09:42

I think what Joey is trying to point out, if I may, is that while you may be quite charming, not everyone responds to gentle niceties. There are those who will only respond after a bit of...a rougher handling. There is a skill, Judge of Character, that gives you insight to their leanings. This is most helpful if you have expanded your training to include both the tough and charming traits.

The importance of such a skill and the need for such flexible persuasion was once a bit of red zone topic, but with the world wide shenanigans we are called to deal with now a days, I can't imagine it's such a delicate subject any longer.



Eden Zweig
Eden Zweig
Nomad

Feb-18-2012 15:30

I am having a hard time seeing your point:

Today I experimented with London SM's that ranged from intermediate to stupendiously hard cases, I solved all of them and I had to repeat two of them, and these SMs that I had to try twice to finally solve were hard level mysteries. I think this needs to be emphasized. The points I want to make are:

1. From what I have been reading in certain threads and PMs from veterans like you, tough+charm or chrm/smart + factions are two options and depending on players' choice, one is to follow the other in the game, not to mention acquisition of all the background skills are in priority. So in the end, you have them all. Only the order of skill-acquisition changes.

2. This means that, as long as you've accomplished said priority which option you pick shouldn't matter as to your success with cases, be it SM or RM. Otherwise, there would be no meaning to introducing variety in the game, as every one would favor one option over the other. So programmers make sure -according to certain criteria about which I faintly have an idea- different means help meet the same ends, right?

3. Meanwhile, these cases, SM or RM, have levels. So even if it is long before the user will have acquired all these skills, there are particular levels of cases, that the programmers ascertained to match the user's capability. So be it SM or RM, there is a case for everyone, correct?

4. Now, I have fair enough gear(that it wouldn't suffice was not confirmed by you),
I have charms and the smarts,
All I should worry about, the random variable in my case, is the levels of mysteries I choose to solve, right? I have nothing but common sense left to employ here.

And when I do that, I see no proportionality to case level vs success. So I conclude that there must be a significant level of randomness involved in the game.

If you have bore with me thus far, I sincerely thank you and repeat: What is it that I am missing?


Joey
Joey "Bulldog" Bane
Washed Up Punter

Feb-18-2012 16:00

Allow me to...review my info and try to complete it a tad, adding also cfm's point of view.

Here's how I think things are: smarts is smarts and persuation is either charm or toughness. Smarts doesn't affect SMs in any way, as evidence is usually set to come out automatically in certain points of the play. I've noticed that in all SMs I played...but haven't played them all. So, when I'm talking about persuation in your case I mean highest rule bending skill, highest sweet talking skill and flirting. Note though that flirting works only on opposite sex...or at least that's how it should work according to its description, reason for which I believe tough builds have an edge over charm builds, as pugilism works equal no matter the gender. You have all these skills topped at max, so what you need now is to boost your charm points with your equipment. Your current cmbination of equipment is what I call "ballanced", meaning resonably high charm and reasonable smarts for csi. For good behavior in SMs I suggest making an equipment combination with charm over 25 and forget about smarts. I currently have 27 in toughness and I have no clams in SMs.

Regarding the tough/charm check, I believe that's supposed to work by changing equipment. Let's say you find out suspect X reacts better to charm than to a tough approach. If the case is high difficulty that doesn't mean he will react the same to...say...20 points in tough or 10 points in charm. In my opinion this means that with 20 points in charm you have a better chance to open him than with an equal number of points in toughness. This is just a personal theory though. However, by going on this assumption, being a charmer or a bruiser shouldn't affect your success on an SM unless it is built that way...and...to my knowledge only Joseph Zeo was trying to do that at one point in time.

Joey
Joey "Bulldog" Bane
Washed Up Punter

Feb-18-2012 16:05

One important point that I have to make however is that I do not know how a suspect is built to respond differently to charm or toughness while building an SM (as mechanics I mean). When Zeo was building his mystery we talked about setting suspects with different reactions to skill types. The principle was that a tough based player would get a clam on a certain suspect, but open another one and receive the necessary piece of info to move the case ahead. I am however sorry to say I don't know how his mystery turned out in the end as this happened during the time I left the game back a couple of years ago.

So, bottom line...and with the risk of repeating myself: get equipment with charm over 25 and you should have no problems.

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