Sleuth Home - Message Boards - Sleuth Talk

Nov-26-2009 13:54

Some time ago, a thread was posted: what can I do for Sleuth? - and I was thinking about it. At that time, when I told about what I thought I could do, I was told that my "developer team" dream was completely dead. And, perhaps it was, in the format that was availiable at that time?

As some of you might know, I am a programmer of heart. People have been frustrated with me because of this earlier, but I do hope we may put this behind us? I have never forced anything onto any of you. My offer have always been completely free, for those who actually want it.

Same is true this time. I have noticed that other web pages that support Sleuth go inactive, and want to do something about it. I am working on putting up a web site with what I hope will be inspirational to some of you. (www.playsleuth2.com) If you visit and find that you don't like it, then, please don't return. The site is only intended for those of you who actually do like it and would want to help me extend it. Not everyone.

It's MUCH undone at the moment, but I AM working to get something up. The site is intended to be a place for the part of the community that always wanted to help add and give back to this great game. I hope you will understand that it's no competitor to the original - rather the oposite. It's meant to be supportive. This is "my" development team idea put into action, and I do hope you will see it as my contribution to what I can do for Sleuth.

There is a LOT I CANNOT do for Sleuth, and that's why I would like to connect with people who want to help. Especially writing and collecting...

Those of you who want to help me, send me a PM.
Those of you who don't want to, please don't mind what I am doing.
Want to know what it's about? - read the idea page.
Not everything is nailed down yet, and I would be happy to get suggestions.

This is intended as a one-time-post. Want to get rid of it? - bring other threads into focus. ;-

Nov-27-2009 06:48

4. The suggestion ‘You may want to take that site down’ is not a democratic suggestion and is not respecting her efforts and the hard work she has put behind. I would recommend instead that You may want not to visit her site at all.


All the above mentioned are not meant to be a vote for the site at all !…simply I don’t like when others try to discourage or criticize people who obviously try to make fun of their hobby. Invest their time and contribute in this game.

Nov-27-2009 07:47

Irene LOVES this game with a PASSION. Really. Seriously!!! She never left this game, and if she did, it was only for a short period of time and probably for only a month. Whereas most of us left for longer periods (Noir burn-out, RL stuff,etc.). She also has contributed a lot to this game (contests, free subs etc). Although perhaps, some of us can also say, I contributed a lot to this game too, but not with the kind of intensity she has.

Now, I am not taking sides here nor defending her. What I am just trying to say is, if we can see how much she loves this game, we might understand why she is doing what she is doing.

As for the copyright thing and stuff... it's for the experts.

:)

Nov-27-2009 08:34

I think this is an interesting concept, and if created in the right way could make a viable sidegrade to Sleuth: Noir (much like the AVL was.) That being said, there are a few underlying issues that seem to be causing unrest already:

1. Ben's permission: I know (from personal experience) that Ben is notoriously hard to get in touch with, and it is even harder to get a concrete answer out of him. Because of this, I find it hard to believe that he has signed off on this idea, especially considering most people who have visited the site are not sure completely what it is going to be yet. If he has given the all clear, then that is fine, but there are some things I can't believe he has allowed to happen, simply because I know he wouldn't let Serges do a lot of things he wanted with the AVL.

2. Logging in: Not operating your own login system, and having people log in "via" your site is a massive security no-no. I think you should seriously consider having your own login system, even if it requires people to sign up with the same username as Sleuth itself (much like the AVL did.) As an extension of this, I believe Ben did once say that nobody was allowed to sniff the site, or modify any sleuth pages in any way. It sounds a little like this could infringe that.

3. Modifying the Sleuth experience: If I have understood the concept correctly, then this game will act as a frontend, an effectively use the Sleuth game as a shell, or an engine for that matter. I have serious issues with allowing any 3rd party site to interact directly with the game in any way, and it seems so do other people.

Nov-27-2009 08:34

Some people have mentioned that this will be similar to the AVL. It will and it wont, from my view. Yes, it is a player expansion of the game, but there are some marked differences that make the two as different as chalk and cheese.

Firstly, you couldn't play Sleuth through the AVL, and nothing you could do on the AVL could have any effect on your Sleuth character. Secondly, the AVL acted almost like a completely separate game, with the only tie in to Sleuth being that you got your experience points from winning AVHs on Sleuth. And thirdly, the AVL offered something that wasn't available in the game anywhere; competitional Villain Hunting. That is why people loved it. It didn't detract from playing Sleuth, if anything it encouraged it. This game it seems is likely to provide us with more of what we already have (hunts, special missions etc) which doesn't make it much of an expansion in my opinion.

Nov-27-2009 09:02

I'm sorry Irene, but I don't really understand what you are attempting to do? You say you are creating a developmental site to help better Noir. I quote

" The site is intended to be a place for the part of the community that always wanted to help add and give back to this great game. I hope you will understand that it's no competitor to the original - rather the opposite. It's meant to be supportive. This is "my" development team idea put into action, and I do hope you will see it as my contribution to what I can do for Sleuth."

So far I think I follow, but here is where I get lost. If the administration does not want or use your ideas or help, then what will your website end up being. It won't be used for your stated purpose, it will in fact become a direct copy and extension of an already existing game. Hence infringing on the copyright of Hypothetical Software. Also it will then be in direct competition with Sleuth Noir.

I fully understand the desire to help expand this game, but in the end it is not ours to fix, change, expand without the consent of the creators/owners. Hopefully you love this game enough to suspend your site until you get full approval from Ben. Respecting the administrations wishes is the best way to show your love of this game.

Nov-27-2009 11:01

From what i know, Irene does have the green light from Ben. I don't know all the details and I am sure Irene can explain it better.

I haven't got time to go through all the posts on this thread, but it seem like there are some objections and comments. I agree with VS on that a private message should be sufficient. Again, Irene said, "Those of you who want to help me, send me a PM. Those of you who don't want to, please don't mind what I am doing. // If you visit and find that you don't like it, then, please don't return."

I think we should keep to the topic of this thread, as i see that some are giving constructive comments :) I do want to help and be a tester, when i have the time. I just hope that when i do and my comments starts pouring in, it won't give Irene a headache! :P

Nov-27-2009 11:30

How will it be in competition with Sleuth: Noir?

You cannot use Irene's website unless you have already created a detective through the "original" Sleuth. Ergo, if you are going to subscribe, you have to subscribe to the "original" Sleuth.

In any event, I'm sure three or four URGENT messages have been sent to Ben and undoubtedly we will know for sure whether Irene's project has Ben's blessing or not in the near future.

Do any of you know for sure that Irene DOES NOT have Ben's blessing? If not, then I suggest we just wait.

Nov-27-2009 12:50

Apologies on jumping to hasty conclusions. But I would have to say it is valid for people to wonder if she has Ben's approval. And if all the voices I've heard are correct then it looks like there is a new and interesting feature about to burst on the scene. Good luck with it.

Now waiting Ben's confirmation. Only because it makes me feel better to hear it out of the horses mouth. Or in this case the sleuth gods mouth.

Nov-27-2009 15:09

^ what she said. lettin it all slide til someone confirms this a hypothetical software approved doohicky. no use goin off half-cocked.

Nov-28-2009 07:00

Ok, let me try to address some issues:

Bens confirmation: I presented my ideas and plans for Ben a couple of months ago in a mail, and recieved what I believed to be a positive response. As you and I know it's no guarantee for his opinion today, but in my eyes an indicator. We will wait to see what he says.

Security: YES, the fact that your are allowed to log in to "Sleuth original" from the site, makes it a "man-in-the-middle"-thing. It's the major concept of the idea. If I wanted to, I would be able to sniff all passwords and usernames that was put up there, as well as other information. Out of that reason I put "someone looking" to be on top of the page all times, as well as the note on logging. You will have to trust me/the site to not do so on my word. I suggest you try first with a newly created character that's not important to you. Looking at it a second time. I have control of more than enough characters, and don't need any more. Have actually come to the point where I don't really want to know more passwords, because of the responsibility. What would I gain by more passwords, except more enemies? I cant come up with something that would be a gain for me. Still you will have to decide if you trust me or not.

Limitations of the site: You cannot do anything there that will contradict what you can do in Sleuth. Major reason being that the original Sleuth is the main "engine" you will run.

Benefits of the site: I don't plan, and I don't want to, and I don't feel it would be right if I were to charge something for the services the site offers. Subscribing will be to Hypotetical Software only. What I do hope are that I may offer something that may add to the interest of people. If more people get interested, find it fun or want to get more of the game, then more people might end up subscribing. The one getting the good side of that deal will be Ben, and that's actually exactly what I want.