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ctown28
ctown28
Tireless Tiger

Apr-16-2009 10:18

I wanted to start this thread to get some opinions from others in the community about the advantages that some players/agencies have over one another. I am not saying my thoughts on them are right or wrong nor am I saying that anybody else’s is. In fact, you may see me flip flop on the topics from time to time as I sometimes like to look at both sides.

What I do not want to see here is for this to turn into a flame war and/or any name calling. Remember, it doesn’t matter if you have been here for 10 days or 1000 days. Every opinion of someone that pays to play the game carries just as much weight as the next person.

A good debate can be healthy for the community and I ask you to all stay respectful here even if you disagree with something that is said here. I will start with some topics and would like to see them discussed and if anyone thinks I missed something or would like to add a topic, by all means go for it.



Replies

Sleuth Sindy
Sleuth Sindy
Pinball Wizard

Apr-19-2009 19:24

@ Sean King

I'm very sorry you have interpreted this thread the way you did. My impression is that this thread was meant to be a *discussion* about the topic rather than an attack on anyone, and I thought it was very successful. When I look through these posts, what I see is that NOBODY is really TH'ing in the way Ben originally meant for Treasure Hunts to be played.



nicnic
nicnic
Battered Shoe

Apr-19-2009 19:33

I was thinking about this a bit today, and I think I was a little bit too harsh in my previous posts. While I am a Sleuth-purist, and I gave my opinions on the matter, to be honest with you, I really don't feel very emotional about any of this. While I stand by the things I said, it is more philosophical than anything else.

And we certainly don't want people to leave over this. That is actually the opposite of what we want for the game. And these points being discussed here, while valid, are not, at least in my opinion, the biggest issues we are facing in Sleuth right now. And in hindsight it seems silly that I even posted anything on the topic. Because I really don't care that much lol. I haven't been trying to soar to the top of the High Scores list in quite a while, so none of this really has any effect on me, personally. Would I like Sleuth to be pure and played for what a lot of us feel was its original intent? Sure. Is it a huge problem if it's not and there are helpers and people doing 100s of cases a week with 5 subbed detectives? Nah. More power to them for keeping their personal interest alive. And like SS said, without a clear set of rules, it becomes difficult for anyone to judge what is right and what is wrong.

If I remember correctly, Huglover released the first version of her program last summer. She was never secretive about it, it was publically announced. We had the opportunity to discuss it then. I posted my personal opinions on the matter (that I wasn’t a fan) and also exchanged a few PMs with Hug on the matter. No one came out in an uproar back then about it, and now people have been using it for almost a year. I don’t really think it’s for any of us to say whether the plethora of case-solvers/helpers out there is wrong. It’s really up to Ben. And is this really something we want Ben to be fretting over right now? Being a purist, I don’t like them, but who am I to say whether it’s OK or not? Or that one is OK and another isn’t?


nicnic
nicnic
Battered Shoe

Apr-19-2009 19:34

And people jumping up the High Scores List, does anyone who is not one of those people really care? LOL. A lot of us stopped caring about that a while ago and just look to come to Sleuth to relax, play a few cases, socialize, and have fun. And ironically if you look at those that are trying to move up the High Scores boards, none have come out to say that they are being cheated in any fashion or can’t compete with people because they are cheating, so why would the rest of us care?

I’m not saying that everything that has been discussed has not been valid, just perhaps a bit irrelevant in the current climate of the game. For a lot of us that have hung on by the skin of our teeth during slow times, it’s just nice to see people playing and enjoying the game.

In hindsight, I’m not sure this thread was a great idea. It’s probably not helping our cause of making the boards positive and inviting, and quite frankly some of these discussions have been beaten to death over the years and I question their relevance in the current climate of the game.



nicnic
nicnic
Battered Shoe

Apr-19-2009 19:35

When these issues were being discussed in the past, there were 100s if not 1000s of active players. The game was extremely competitive. That’s simply not the case now. What made me think about this was when al-Q went inactive, I contemplated keeping it going on my own and subbing all my fellow directors so I could keep it alive. Was this to assembly line my way to the top of the charts? No. I just didn’t want to let it go. And at the time, recruiting newbies was a fruitless, if not impossible task. I didn’t do it, not because of morals (I didn’t even think about that, the game was dying), but because I had also lost the will to play, but I still refused to leave :-) I started to wonder today if I had done that, and al-Q had 5 active detectives today that were all being played by me, would I be sitting here on the receiving end of my own philosophical beating stick? The game is moving forward, but there certainly aren’t dozens of newbies beating down the doors of agencies right now. Maybe we can re-hash this discussion in 6 months :-)

Sean/Kenb, please do not leave. That is the last thing we want.

I know I may seem like I’ve waffled a little bit, which isn’t true. I still stand by my previous philosophical ramblings from before, however I was just really not that worked up over any of it. I think my true feelings were pretty much in line with what Mak posted. And when I thought about it a little bit more, I felt I may have been a bit unfair.

However, there is one thing I do think is extremely important for keeping the spirit of the community alive: Veterans, please be careful of how much help we give to newbies. That includes access to fancy helpers/case-solvers and revealing some of the secrets of the game. It is much better for the community in the long run for people to experience the game for themselves. It will give them more incentive to stick around.

In closing, ctown you are NOT getting a cape!


Lolita Marinez
Lolita Marinez
Sleuth About Town

Apr-19-2009 19:45

It appears my eloquence has left me this morning. Nothing is coming out how I want it to sound.

I have PM'd Sean King in the hopes that he will read it. I echo the sentiments of luc and Sindy and I am sad that someone would leave over a discussion like this.

And SS if you miss that spittoon one more time and I have to mop the porch I'm gonna hide your terbaccy on ya where you'll never find it and make you mop the floor for a month!

ctown28
ctown28
Tireless Tiger

Apr-19-2009 19:52

When I first was creating this thread, I had some reservations about whether or not I should. The reservations I had have no come to fruition. I was not makingthe thread to single out or attack any one person or agency. It was meant to be a discussion and that is it. I now regret that I ever made the thread and am contemplating taking the entire thing down, but I don't think that would be fair to some of the people that voiced their opinions

While we are at a point in the game where we have topics like what can we do to help the game, this obviously is not one of them. Ken, I hope you reconsider your decision to leave the game, I never like to see anyone leave the game, espescially when it is someone that obviously enjoys the game. There are much bigger problems that many of us have to deal with on a daily basis. If my biggest problem in the world right now is if somebody is jumping up the high score boards on a gem I play on the internet, I would consider things to be going extremely well for me.

Nic made some great points on her last post. What I was trying to do in this thread other than getting opinions was try to light a spark and get some passion back in the game and on the boards. I think it was going well for a while, but the end result now is something that I did not want to see. (I am talking about a player leaving here, not about the not getting the cape thing, though I don't like to see that either!)

shell marple
shell marple
Con Artist

Apr-19-2009 21:36

I hope you don't remove this thread ctown. I don't play anymore, but I do check in from time to time to see what is happening in sleuthville. I must say when I first starting reading this post my pulse started racing a little faster. The passion is back, the community seems to be pulling together, ideas and conversation is flowing freely... (something that has been lacking).

As for a player leaving, hopefully Ken will reconsider. No one wants to see anyone leave this game, especially due to a misunderstanding (for lack of a better term).

As for helping the game, I read plenty of great ideas for the issues that do concern the players of sleuth. Not discussing something in an attempt not to ruffle any feathers in my opinion only leads to the boards becoming a quiet lonely place. And those very quiet boards lead to a very quiet village.




shell marple
shell marple
Con Artist

Apr-19-2009 21:51

One last thing, I do agree with nicnic that these are old issues that are not as relevant today as they were back when there where more players and a highly competitive atmosphere. But I do believe that there needs to be more disscussions on these here boards. I always knew as a director when my agency was in trouble and ready to lose members.. How.... the agnecy message boards got very quiet. I have always thought that the message boards and the interaction between the players has always been the backbone of the game... When they are upbeat and lively... the game tends to turn that direction. And when they get ugly or just plain cease to exsist so does the game.

Lolita Marinez
Lolita Marinez
Sleuth About Town

Apr-20-2009 02:29

Please don't remove it ctown. It is a great discussion and allowed people a voice over some issues that concern them and I am so pleased that it stayed as a civil friendly discussion.

I think it just goes back to the old adage of "You can't please all the folk all the time"

Vampiric Smile
Vampiric Smile
Safety Officer

Apr-20-2009 04:40

Unfortunately, judging by the results, it is obvious that the target of this thread was not accomplished. SS is right pointing the antithesis between the intention of ctown and the outcome of the discussion. In addition it is really sad the fact that a honorable player like kenb felt threatened by the post (it is true that parallelisms like “snake in the grass” were out of the spirit of the post) and decided to quit playing the game (I really hope that he will reconsider)
Jesus said that we should judge the tree by the fruits the tree is producing and I feel that the fruit after the post of Kenb is very bitter indeed. Better the post to be removed


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