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ctown28
ctown28
Huntsman

Apr-16-2009 10:18

I wanted to start this thread to get some opinions from others in the community about the advantages that some players/agencies have over one another. I am not saying my thoughts on them are right or wrong nor am I saying that anybody else’s is. In fact, you may see me flip flop on the topics from time to time as I sometimes like to look at both sides.

What I do not want to see here is for this to turn into a flame war and/or any name calling. Remember, it doesn’t matter if you have been here for 10 days or 1000 days. Every opinion of someone that pays to play the game carries just as much weight as the next person.

A good debate can be healthy for the community and I ask you to all stay respectful here even if you disagree with something that is said here. I will start with some topics and would like to see them discussed and if anyone thinks I missed something or would like to add a topic, by all means go for it.



Replies

Secret_Squirrel
Secret_Squirrel
Safety Officer

Apr-19-2009 17:36

an abbreviated version of a very long post I lost coz it took me so long to write it I'd timed out :)

... to lose players coz we keep dragging up all these old huckleberries that I've read over and over, over the past few years is really quite pointless, isn't it!

In fact it's the antithesis, I suppose, of what ctown was trying to achieve with this post.

All it does is give us all chance (me included) to wax lyrical about what we don't like. Great!

Ultimately these issues would be moot if there was an adequate set of game rules. That's been said before. But it makes it no less true. Down the bottom yonder somewhere near the code of conduct.

You are expected to approach game play in an ethical and respectful manner and to adhere to any posted rules or rules posted in the future." [from the Code of Conduct]

This small statement in the Code of COnduct probably doesn't come up to scratch, when people copy and paste the rule only to have someone else copy and post the proviso to that rule made X months down the line.

I would like to see these questions become irrelevant once and for all by establishing a set of clear rules that can be located easily and are updated regularly when rules change.

This might include that third party 'Sleuth Helpers' are allowed, password sharing is not (which by the way the Code of Conduct clearly states already), and that players may subscribe as many times as they like, but that they can only have two agents in any one agency.

It would also help if the majority of any rules were mechanically reinforceable.

But a rule is a rule if it is clearly stated on the Game Rules Page.

Simple.

Secret_Squirrel
Secret_Squirrel
Safety Officer

Apr-19-2009 17:44

Then all of us old timers can sit and wax lyrical about the way the game 'should' be played and 'spirit' and 'ethics' and 'whatnot' as much as we like and new players can say 'tough luck, go read the rules gramps', and we'd go back to chewin' our terbaccy and rockin in our chairs.

luc pfeiffer
luc pfeiffer
Red-Nosed

Apr-19-2009 18:56

to Mr. King -- I'm sorry to hear that the surgical procedures are not working out right now. I am glad to hear that you feel Sleuth is helping you, even if only to keep all the marbles rolling around. I don't think anyone would have a problem with your 8 characters, per se, especially if they are spread out over several agencies or unaligned with any. You seem to have been around for a while so this can't be the first time you are hearing of this controversy, is it? And if it isn't, it is too bad that you are letting the stridentness of other people's voicing of their opinions chase you off. It seems a shame that anyone would do that rather than just ignoring them and enjoying the pleasures that they find in the game. I hope that you do decide to return to our community and make it brighter by your interaction with us in the future.

luc pfeiffer
luc pfeiffer
Red-Nosed

Apr-19-2009 18:58

to Squirrel -- you forgot the part about peering over our granny glasses as we read the rules and the twelve feet of snow on the ground outside the window as we rock those chairs back and forth, back and forth... Mind the cat's tail, ouch, too late.

Sleuth Sindy
Sleuth Sindy
Pinball Wizard

Apr-19-2009 19:24

@ Sean King

I'm very sorry you have interpreted this thread the way you did. My impression is that this thread was meant to be a *discussion* about the topic rather than an attack on anyone, and I thought it was very successful. When I look through these posts, what I see is that NOBODY is really TH'ing in the way Ben originally meant for Treasure Hunts to be played.



nicnic
nicnic
Battered Shoe

Apr-19-2009 19:33

I was thinking about this a bit today, and I think I was a little bit too harsh in my previous posts. While I am a Sleuth-purist, and I gave my opinions on the matter, to be honest with you, I really don't feel very emotional about any of this. While I stand by the things I said, it is more philosophical than anything else.

And we certainly don't want people to leave over this. That is actually the opposite of what we want for the game. And these points being discussed here, while valid, are not, at least in my opinion, the biggest issues we are facing in Sleuth right now. And in hindsight it seems silly that I even posted anything on the topic. Because I really don't care that much lol. I haven't been trying to soar to the top of the High Scores list in quite a while, so none of this really has any effect on me, personally. Would I like Sleuth to be pure and played for what a lot of us feel was its original intent? Sure. Is it a huge problem if it's not and there are helpers and people doing 100s of cases a week with 5 subbed detectives? Nah. More power to them for keeping their personal interest alive. And like SS said, without a clear set of rules, it becomes difficult for anyone to judge what is right and what is wrong.

If I remember correctly, Huglover released the first version of her program last summer. She was never secretive about it, it was publically announced. We had the opportunity to discuss it then. I posted my personal opinions on the matter (that I wasn’t a fan) and also exchanged a few PMs with Hug on the matter. No one came out in an uproar back then about it, and now people have been using it for almost a year. I don’t really think it’s for any of us to say whether the plethora of case-solvers/helpers out there is wrong. It’s really up to Ben. And is this really something we want Ben to be fretting over right now? Being a purist, I don’t like them, but who am I to say whether it’s OK or not? Or that one is OK and another isn’t?


nicnic
nicnic
Battered Shoe

Apr-19-2009 19:34

And people jumping up the High Scores List, does anyone who is not one of those people really care? LOL. A lot of us stopped caring about that a while ago and just look to come to Sleuth to relax, play a few cases, socialize, and have fun. And ironically if you look at those that are trying to move up the High Scores boards, none have come out to say that they are being cheated in any fashion or can’t compete with people because they are cheating, so why would the rest of us care?

I’m not saying that everything that has been discussed has not been valid, just perhaps a bit irrelevant in the current climate of the game. For a lot of us that have hung on by the skin of our teeth during slow times, it’s just nice to see people playing and enjoying the game.

In hindsight, I’m not sure this thread was a great idea. It’s probably not helping our cause of making the boards positive and inviting, and quite frankly some of these discussions have been beaten to death over the years and I question their relevance in the current climate of the game.



nicnic
nicnic
Battered Shoe

Apr-19-2009 19:35

When these issues were being discussed in the past, there were 100s if not 1000s of active players. The game was extremely competitive. That’s simply not the case now. What made me think about this was when al-Q went inactive, I contemplated keeping it going on my own and subbing all my fellow directors so I could keep it alive. Was this to assembly line my way to the top of the charts? No. I just didn’t want to let it go. And at the time, recruiting newbies was a fruitless, if not impossible task. I didn’t do it, not because of morals (I didn’t even think about that, the game was dying), but because I had also lost the will to play, but I still refused to leave :-) I started to wonder today if I had done that, and al-Q had 5 active detectives today that were all being played by me, would I be sitting here on the receiving end of my own philosophical beating stick? The game is moving forward, but there certainly aren’t dozens of newbies beating down the doors of agencies right now. Maybe we can re-hash this discussion in 6 months :-)

Sean/Kenb, please do not leave. That is the last thing we want.

I know I may seem like I’ve waffled a little bit, which isn’t true. I still stand by my previous philosophical ramblings from before, however I was just really not that worked up over any of it. I think my true feelings were pretty much in line with what Mak posted. And when I thought about it a little bit more, I felt I may have been a bit unfair.

However, there is one thing I do think is extremely important for keeping the spirit of the community alive: Veterans, please be careful of how much help we give to newbies. That includes access to fancy helpers/case-solvers and revealing some of the secrets of the game. It is much better for the community in the long run for people to experience the game for themselves. It will give them more incentive to stick around.

In closing, ctown you are NOT getting a cape!


Lolita Marinez
Lolita Marinez
Sleuth About Town

Apr-19-2009 19:45

It appears my eloquence has left me this morning. Nothing is coming out how I want it to sound.

I have PM'd Sean King in the hopes that he will read it. I echo the sentiments of luc and Sindy and I am sad that someone would leave over a discussion like this.

And SS if you miss that spittoon one more time and I have to mop the porch I'm gonna hide your terbaccy on ya where you'll never find it and make you mop the floor for a month!

ctown28
ctown28
Huntsman

Apr-19-2009 19:52

When I first was creating this thread, I had some reservations about whether or not I should. The reservations I had have no come to fruition. I was not makingthe thread to single out or attack any one person or agency. It was meant to be a discussion and that is it. I now regret that I ever made the thread and am contemplating taking the entire thing down, but I don't think that would be fair to some of the people that voiced their opinions

While we are at a point in the game where we have topics like what can we do to help the game, this obviously is not one of them. Ken, I hope you reconsider your decision to leave the game, I never like to see anyone leave the game, espescially when it is someone that obviously enjoys the game. There are much bigger problems that many of us have to deal with on a daily basis. If my biggest problem in the world right now is if somebody is jumping up the high score boards on a gem I play on the internet, I would consider things to be going extremely well for me.

Nic made some great points on her last post. What I was trying to do in this thread other than getting opinions was try to light a spark and get some passion back in the game and on the boards. I think it was going well for a while, but the end result now is something that I did not want to see. (I am talking about a player leaving here, not about the not getting the cape thing, though I don't like to see that either!)

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