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ctown28
ctown28
Huntsman

Apr-16-2009 10:18

I wanted to start this thread to get some opinions from others in the community about the advantages that some players/agencies have over one another. I am not saying my thoughts on them are right or wrong nor am I saying that anybody else’s is. In fact, you may see me flip flop on the topics from time to time as I sometimes like to look at both sides.

What I do not want to see here is for this to turn into a flame war and/or any name calling. Remember, it doesn’t matter if you have been here for 10 days or 1000 days. Every opinion of someone that pays to play the game carries just as much weight as the next person.

A good debate can be healthy for the community and I ask you to all stay respectful here even if you disagree with something that is said here. I will start with some topics and would like to see them discussed and if anyone thinks I missed something or would like to add a topic, by all means go for it.



Replies

Breitkat
Breitkat
Pinball Amateur

Apr-19-2009 01:19

They should work cases by hand until they understand how the process works (for most people, this shouldn't take more than a couple days, tops). Once that happens, the sky's the limit for helpers as far as I'm concerned.

Which brings me to the topic of detectives solving 150+ cases. The magic number that people seem to have settled on is 150. I'm assuming that this is coming from the Weekly High Scores Board? Someone mentioned that this number only includes regular cases, not favors. Unfortunately, when I've been on the Weekly Board (admittedly, it's been a while), my numbers were affected by BOTH cases and favors. So, how does 150 cases and favors break down? If you divide 150 by 7 (days a week), you get 21.45 (for arguments' sake, let's bump it up to 22). So how does a detective come up with 22 cases in a day? 12 of those are his/her own regular cases. Let's be generous, and give him/her 4 favors because of those cases. That's 16. Now, to get 6 additional, I need 3-4 cases from someone else, and 1-2 favors. Voila, there's 21-22 cases a day.

Now, looking at that math, I'm not seeing it as being terribly unfair. Using 3-4 cases a day from another detective doesn't seem like highway robbery to me. If the magic number were above 300 or so, I could see the reasoning for objections. But as it stands now, 150 per week isn't that much to me, especially if a person is doing a special task, such as contact hunting.

Password Sharing
I can see why this is a touchy subject for so many. I've been a Director for going on three years now. At this Agency, we do Password Sharing at the Director level. We do this for several reasons.

One, we have had a problem at the Agency with having only one P/E contact for a time. When one of our agents needs something processed, and this detective is not around, a Director can go and process the evidence and not have to wait for the person to get back.

Two, several of our detectives are here only on a part-time basis.

Breitkat
Breitkat
Pinball Amateur

Apr-19-2009 02:10

Sometimes we don't see them for days (or occasionally weeks) at a time. While we have no problem with them being gone, we do like to be able to keep the various projects that the Agency is involved with, going.

3. We believe strongly in an exchange of trust with our detectives. It takes time for trust to develop, and relationships to grow between people. Exchanging passwords shows us our agents trust us, and we can trust them.

4. We have worked hard to assemble an Equipment Locker worth some $2 million total (much of which is not easily replaceable). Password sharing helps us ensure that equipment problems are kept to a minimum.

For those who think that we take Password Sharing lightly, let me explain. We treat passwords as Classified Information. They are stored offsite, and NEVER disclosed to anybody who is not a permanent Director of the Agency. No more than three people at any one time know passwords at the Director level. Incoming Detectives are given time to get to know the people of the Agency, and to realize they can trust us, and that we only have his/her best interests at heart. Detectives go at their own pace, and when they're ready, we discuss it with them. No one is forced to give their password to us, but they will not be promoted if we don't have a password or accurate email on file for them. We DO NOT read other people's mail, regardless of the content. Any Director reading or deleting anything beyond a "XYZ Solved the Case of the Rusty Knife and received 10 points" etc. message in anyone's mail will be instantly fired and released from the Agency.
All detectives at the Agency are expected to abide by the Code of Conduct at all times. Directors are held to a higher standard, and expected to conduct themselves conscientiously at all times.

We try to make Wish a laid-back, relaxed agency. But we believe strongly in following the rules and policies of Sleuth.

Breitkat
Breitkat
Pinball Amateur

Apr-19-2009 02:36

Case-Sharing
We have a "Take a Case, Leave a Case" policy at the Agency. I've tried tagging cases with different groups, so they can be returned to their original openers, and I haven't been impressed by the practice. It usually leads to paranoia ("Somebody took my case!"), jealousy (He's got more than me!"), and hoarding ("NO, I won't help the newbie! Find somebody else!"). To me, tagging or restricting cases to their original owners is more trouble and work than it's worth.

A couple final thoughts....

The High Scores Board that seems to be causing the most controversy is the Weekly one. I wonder if this one might be changed, leaving the others alone?

The four rules that Ben stated which Nicnic brought to our attention are not new, nor particularly out of line with typical societal values. I do think it might be an idea, though, either to include them on the Code of Conduct, or to put an additional tab containing them next to the COC.

Thanks for your patience! ;-)

Breit

Rosamund Clifford
Rosamund Clifford
Tale Spinner

Apr-19-2009 06:00

Ctown and nicnic, you are both right. The original rule said that a single player cannot control more than two detectives in an agency, but Ben changed that rule in his post from February 18 2008. I also have a PM by him to the same effect.

Quoting Ben:

Feb-18-2008 12:08

For the record, as much as the rule is a pain in my butt, the rule is still in affect (effect?).

No single person should control more than two detectives in an agency if that agency competes in Treasure Hunts.

Treasure Hunts are intended for agencies that really are teams of several people working together to accomplish a goal. Allowing more than two accounts per player opens up the possibility of a single person with a lot of time and money to dominate the hunts and shut out agencies who are competing in a more cooperative way.
etc.

http://noir.playsleuth.com/map/cityhall/post.spy?id=26544&first_record=223168

Sleuth Sindy
Sleuth Sindy
Pinball Wizard

Apr-19-2009 06:18

I agree with Squirrel in that I think it's truly sad that Sleuth is not and most likely will never be played the way it was intended to be.

I recently started a new detective who is not in an agency. I'm solving all my cases the old-fashioned way - pencil and paper - and taking notes as I honestly don't remember anymore how many suspects are in each level and how many of those will have fake/real alibis. I have my notes somewhere, but honestly I'm enjoying figuring it out for myself all over again. I have to say my enjoyment of Shades was totally destroyed when it was pointed out to me that there is a "gimme" in the game.

I think it's sad that a detective isn't "ranked" for how many cases he/she has solved on his/her own - but rather merely on how many cases he/she has "processed."

However, I realize you can't control how other people play their game, and just as there is no perfect job, unfortunately there is no perfect game/community. There's always a snake or two (or three) in the grass.

In the end, I think people who solve their cases using the "assembly line" method or use automated helpers that practically solve the case for you are cheating themselves most of all. They will never know the elation of solving a case with a charming female detective in London with three notes and three or four suspects using the Librarian as their alibi all on their own. :)

Lolita Marinez
Lolita Marinez
Sleuth About Town

Apr-19-2009 10:07

Ok I can see nic's point with the analogy. No it is not any less illegal just because there is no cop around to catch you. And if there is a known case of it being enforced and someone being removed from an agency/game/subscription whatever then I guess it is a rule.

*bows out gracefully. Hey I can curtsy now that I have my beautiful new dress! A curtsy in a Possum Bomber Jacket and my knickers didn't look so good!

Sean King
Sean King
Nomad

Apr-19-2009 16:17

This is Kenb. I check the message boards maybe once a week, so I just now stumbled across this very disturbing thread.

Yes, I am one of those sinful, cheating, dishonorable, snake in the grass people that have multiple subs. I have had a lot of time on my hands due to 4 consecutive surgeries that do not seem to be working out at this point. Sleuth has been a great source of entertainment and a way to get my mind off of physical pain. Evidently I got carried away with subbing and solving cases. I am carrying 8 subscriptions right now.

Thank you all for helping me to see the light. Ctown is right in saying that no one should spend 12 hrs. a day on Sleuth. And please forgive me for occasionally going on a treasure hunt when just solving cases got too boring. Now the hundreds of agencies currently doing hunts won't have to worry about me taking advantage.

I suppose that I could carry on with 2 subs and just do a limited number of cases as has been suggested. But I don't feel as though I fit in any more with righteous, honorable people such as yourselves.

So now feel free to say anything you want about me because, believe me, I will not be signing on to Sleuth again by these 8 names or by any other.

Secret_Squirrel
Secret_Squirrel
Safety Officer

Apr-19-2009 17:36

an abbreviated version of a very long post I lost coz it took me so long to write it I'd timed out :)

... to lose players coz we keep dragging up all these old huckleberries that I've read over and over, over the past few years is really quite pointless, isn't it!

In fact it's the antithesis, I suppose, of what ctown was trying to achieve with this post.

All it does is give us all chance (me included) to wax lyrical about what we don't like. Great!

Ultimately these issues would be moot if there was an adequate set of game rules. That's been said before. But it makes it no less true. Down the bottom yonder somewhere near the code of conduct.

You are expected to approach game play in an ethical and respectful manner and to adhere to any posted rules or rules posted in the future." [from the Code of Conduct]

This small statement in the Code of COnduct probably doesn't come up to scratch, when people copy and paste the rule only to have someone else copy and post the proviso to that rule made X months down the line.

I would like to see these questions become irrelevant once and for all by establishing a set of clear rules that can be located easily and are updated regularly when rules change.

This might include that third party 'Sleuth Helpers' are allowed, password sharing is not (which by the way the Code of Conduct clearly states already), and that players may subscribe as many times as they like, but that they can only have two agents in any one agency.

It would also help if the majority of any rules were mechanically reinforceable.

But a rule is a rule if it is clearly stated on the Game Rules Page.

Simple.

Secret_Squirrel
Secret_Squirrel
Safety Officer

Apr-19-2009 17:44

Then all of us old timers can sit and wax lyrical about the way the game 'should' be played and 'spirit' and 'ethics' and 'whatnot' as much as we like and new players can say 'tough luck, go read the rules gramps', and we'd go back to chewin' our terbaccy and rockin in our chairs.

luc pfeiffer
luc pfeiffer
Red-Nosed

Apr-19-2009 18:56

to Mr. King -- I'm sorry to hear that the surgical procedures are not working out right now. I am glad to hear that you feel Sleuth is helping you, even if only to keep all the marbles rolling around. I don't think anyone would have a problem with your 8 characters, per se, especially if they are spread out over several agencies or unaligned with any. You seem to have been around for a while so this can't be the first time you are hearing of this controversy, is it? And if it isn't, it is too bad that you are letting the stridentness of other people's voicing of their opinions chase you off. It seems a shame that anyone would do that rather than just ignoring them and enjoying the pleasures that they find in the game. I hope that you do decide to return to our community and make it brighter by your interaction with us in the future.

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