Sleuth Home - Message Boards - Sleuth Talk


0 0
Advantages
  <<First Page  |  <Previous Next>  |  Last Page>>  

ctown28
ctown28
Huntsman

Apr-16-2009 10:18

I wanted to start this thread to get some opinions from others in the community about the advantages that some players/agencies have over one another. I am not saying my thoughts on them are right or wrong nor am I saying that anybody else’s is. In fact, you may see me flip flop on the topics from time to time as I sometimes like to look at both sides.

What I do not want to see here is for this to turn into a flame war and/or any name calling. Remember, it doesn’t matter if you have been here for 10 days or 1000 days. Every opinion of someone that pays to play the game carries just as much weight as the next person.

A good debate can be healthy for the community and I ask you to all stay respectful here even if you disagree with something that is said here. I will start with some topics and would like to see them discussed and if anyone thinks I missed something or would like to add a topic, by all means go for it.



Replies

Adam Carter
Adam Carter
Big Winner

Apr-18-2009 23:30

Lolita, it is a lot easier than you think to track this sort of problem though. Every detective is linked to the PayPal account used to purchase it (if I remember correctly from when I was last told). From this it is the simple matter of ordering the list in such a way as to present all duplicated accounts next to each other, and then check to see if those detectives lie in the same agency. If so, then you have your rule breaker.

There are other ways that he can do it though. He could check the IP addresses where the characters are played from regularly. If there is an excessive amount (5-6+ subs with the same IP in an agency) then it is cause for concern. But you can't just say that because it's difficult to enforce then it's not a rule. It IS a rule. And that is the end of it. If people choose to break that rule, then they risk facing the consequences.

SS, I knew somebody would have a problem with my VH helper :)
I remember Serges wanted to do one a couple of years ago, to tie in with the AVL, but we decided that it was too soon then, and people were still learning how to play. The only reason why I went ahead and wrote it now is because it's been nearly 3 years since VHs began. Most people have a system now, whether it is lists like those found on agency websites, spreadsheets or others. This was my little project for something I could make that would be of use.

nicnic
nicnic
Battered Shoe

Apr-18-2009 23:40

To clarify one more time, when it is reported to Ben that this rule may be being broken, he has the ability to check, and from personal experience I know of at least one time he has enforced this rule. I'm sure there were others.

Let's use an analogy. Driving over the speed limit is illegal. 99% of the time you may not get caught when you are driving over the speed limit. If you do get caught, you will get fined for it. Because 99% of the time there is not a cop around to write you a ticket make it any less illegal?

Breitkat
Breitkat
Pinball Amateur

Apr-19-2009 00:08

The idea that a rule is "only a wish if it cannot be enforced" is rather troubling, and at the same time, maddening to me. This is the same kind of thinking that various people like Werber, Serena Barton, and Arakasi all used to perpetuate their illicit activities. And while these people were all before your time, Lolita, the results of their activity are with us today. Because of them, we have a community that (I believe, anyway) heartily believes in honor and ethical behaviour. We do not tolerate thieves, predators, or con artists, and do all we can to eliminate them from Sleuth.

Another result of that period in Sleuth history is the Code of Conduct. And while it may not cover all of the four rules Nicnic found that Ben stated, there are two statements in it which should cover your quandries:

1.You are expected to approach game play in an ethical and respectful manner and to adhere to any posted rules or rules posted in the future.

2. We reserve the right to remove, at any time, without notice, or refund any user for violations of this Code of Conduct.

So. It really doesn't matter what people think of the 2-Detective rule, or any other of the rules/guidelines/suggestions that have been posted by Admin. We are ALLLLLLL expected to behave in an ethical and respectful manner at all times. We're all adults here (even if you're under 18, by being here, you accept the responsibilities of being an adult, and behaving consequently). If you don't feel like playing nicely, you're free to go elsewhere.

Breitkat
Breitkat
Pinball Amateur

Apr-19-2009 00:52

Now. As for the other topics that have been discussed here, here's my take on things:

Automated Helpers
I spent the first three+ years of my time at Sleuth doing cases with pen and paper, simply because there WERE no helpers available. About 18 months ago, we started getting people who came up with helpers of various kinds, some with more 'automation' to them, some not. Of the 15+ that were available, I tried about 10. I wasn't impressed with any of them because they took too much work on my part to process, and some of them were difficult to load. I then reluctantly tried Pidgeot's helper, and instantly was impressed. It recorded the information accurately, it didn't clam people, it had a color system to help me figure out real stuff from potentially false to truly false, and I didn't have to endlessly switch from one page to another to another, etc. I've used it (double checking the results like Nicnic) ever since.

As for the completely automated helper, I've tried it briefly. I had extreme trouble loading it, and it took six times to get to the right webpage. Even with help, I couldn't get it to work easily. Personally, I'm not really enthused about it, but as for whether I think it's too much of an advantage, no, I don't think it's that much of a benefit over people who don't use it.

Which leads me to the discussion about detectives who solve large amounts of cases. The magic number that people seem to have agreed on is 150. I'm assuming this comes from the Weekly High Scores Board? People have been believing that this number only includes regular cases, and not favors. When I've been on that particular Board (and admittedly, it's been a while), my numbers changed based on BOTH cases and favors that I solved.

Having said all that, my basic belief about helpers is that people should not use ANY helper until they understand the basics of Sleuth, the logistics and reasonings behind how a case is solved.

Breitkat
Breitkat
Pinball Amateur

Apr-19-2009 01:19

They should work cases by hand until they understand how the process works (for most people, this shouldn't take more than a couple days, tops). Once that happens, the sky's the limit for helpers as far as I'm concerned.

Which brings me to the topic of detectives solving 150+ cases. The magic number that people seem to have settled on is 150. I'm assuming that this is coming from the Weekly High Scores Board? Someone mentioned that this number only includes regular cases, not favors. Unfortunately, when I've been on the Weekly Board (admittedly, it's been a while), my numbers were affected by BOTH cases and favors. So, how does 150 cases and favors break down? If you divide 150 by 7 (days a week), you get 21.45 (for arguments' sake, let's bump it up to 22). So how does a detective come up with 22 cases in a day? 12 of those are his/her own regular cases. Let's be generous, and give him/her 4 favors because of those cases. That's 16. Now, to get 6 additional, I need 3-4 cases from someone else, and 1-2 favors. Voila, there's 21-22 cases a day.

Now, looking at that math, I'm not seeing it as being terribly unfair. Using 3-4 cases a day from another detective doesn't seem like highway robbery to me. If the magic number were above 300 or so, I could see the reasoning for objections. But as it stands now, 150 per week isn't that much to me, especially if a person is doing a special task, such as contact hunting.

Password Sharing
I can see why this is a touchy subject for so many. I've been a Director for going on three years now. At this Agency, we do Password Sharing at the Director level. We do this for several reasons.

One, we have had a problem at the Agency with having only one P/E contact for a time. When one of our agents needs something processed, and this detective is not around, a Director can go and process the evidence and not have to wait for the person to get back.

Two, several of our detectives are here only on a part-time basis.

Breitkat
Breitkat
Pinball Amateur

Apr-19-2009 02:10

Sometimes we don't see them for days (or occasionally weeks) at a time. While we have no problem with them being gone, we do like to be able to keep the various projects that the Agency is involved with, going.

3. We believe strongly in an exchange of trust with our detectives. It takes time for trust to develop, and relationships to grow between people. Exchanging passwords shows us our agents trust us, and we can trust them.

4. We have worked hard to assemble an Equipment Locker worth some $2 million total (much of which is not easily replaceable). Password sharing helps us ensure that equipment problems are kept to a minimum.

For those who think that we take Password Sharing lightly, let me explain. We treat passwords as Classified Information. They are stored offsite, and NEVER disclosed to anybody who is not a permanent Director of the Agency. No more than three people at any one time know passwords at the Director level. Incoming Detectives are given time to get to know the people of the Agency, and to realize they can trust us, and that we only have his/her best interests at heart. Detectives go at their own pace, and when they're ready, we discuss it with them. No one is forced to give their password to us, but they will not be promoted if we don't have a password or accurate email on file for them. We DO NOT read other people's mail, regardless of the content. Any Director reading or deleting anything beyond a "XYZ Solved the Case of the Rusty Knife and received 10 points" etc. message in anyone's mail will be instantly fired and released from the Agency.
All detectives at the Agency are expected to abide by the Code of Conduct at all times. Directors are held to a higher standard, and expected to conduct themselves conscientiously at all times.

We try to make Wish a laid-back, relaxed agency. But we believe strongly in following the rules and policies of Sleuth.

Breitkat
Breitkat
Pinball Amateur

Apr-19-2009 02:36

Case-Sharing
We have a "Take a Case, Leave a Case" policy at the Agency. I've tried tagging cases with different groups, so they can be returned to their original openers, and I haven't been impressed by the practice. It usually leads to paranoia ("Somebody took my case!"), jealousy (He's got more than me!"), and hoarding ("NO, I won't help the newbie! Find somebody else!"). To me, tagging or restricting cases to their original owners is more trouble and work than it's worth.

A couple final thoughts....

The High Scores Board that seems to be causing the most controversy is the Weekly one. I wonder if this one might be changed, leaving the others alone?

The four rules that Ben stated which Nicnic brought to our attention are not new, nor particularly out of line with typical societal values. I do think it might be an idea, though, either to include them on the Code of Conduct, or to put an additional tab containing them next to the COC.

Thanks for your patience! ;-)

Breit

Rosamund Clifford
Rosamund Clifford
Tale Spinner

Apr-19-2009 06:00

Ctown and nicnic, you are both right. The original rule said that a single player cannot control more than two detectives in an agency, but Ben changed that rule in his post from February 18 2008. I also have a PM by him to the same effect.

Quoting Ben:

Feb-18-2008 12:08

For the record, as much as the rule is a pain in my butt, the rule is still in affect (effect?).

No single person should control more than two detectives in an agency if that agency competes in Treasure Hunts.

Treasure Hunts are intended for agencies that really are teams of several people working together to accomplish a goal. Allowing more than two accounts per player opens up the possibility of a single person with a lot of time and money to dominate the hunts and shut out agencies who are competing in a more cooperative way.
etc.

http://noir.playsleuth.com/map/cityhall/post.spy?id=26544&first_record=223168

Sleuth Sindy
Sleuth Sindy
Pinball Wizard

Apr-19-2009 06:18

I agree with Squirrel in that I think it's truly sad that Sleuth is not and most likely will never be played the way it was intended to be.

I recently started a new detective who is not in an agency. I'm solving all my cases the old-fashioned way - pencil and paper - and taking notes as I honestly don't remember anymore how many suspects are in each level and how many of those will have fake/real alibis. I have my notes somewhere, but honestly I'm enjoying figuring it out for myself all over again. I have to say my enjoyment of Shades was totally destroyed when it was pointed out to me that there is a "gimme" in the game.

I think it's sad that a detective isn't "ranked" for how many cases he/she has solved on his/her own - but rather merely on how many cases he/she has "processed."

However, I realize you can't control how other people play their game, and just as there is no perfect job, unfortunately there is no perfect game/community. There's always a snake or two (or three) in the grass.

In the end, I think people who solve their cases using the "assembly line" method or use automated helpers that practically solve the case for you are cheating themselves most of all. They will never know the elation of solving a case with a charming female detective in London with three notes and three or four suspects using the Librarian as their alibi all on their own. :)

Lolita Marinez
Lolita Marinez
Sleuth About Town

Apr-19-2009 10:07

Ok I can see nic's point with the analogy. No it is not any less illegal just because there is no cop around to catch you. And if there is a known case of it being enforced and someone being removed from an agency/game/subscription whatever then I guess it is a rule.

*bows out gracefully. Hey I can curtsy now that I have my beautiful new dress! A curtsy in a Possum Bomber Jacket and my knickers didn't look so good!

  <<First Page  |  <Previous Next>  |  Last Page>>  

[ You must login to reply ]