Sleuth Home - Message Boards - Sleuth Talk


0 0
Advantages
  <<First Page  |  <Previous Next>  |  Last Page>>  

ctown28
ctown28
Huntsman

Apr-16-2009 10:18

I wanted to start this thread to get some opinions from others in the community about the advantages that some players/agencies have over one another. I am not saying my thoughts on them are right or wrong nor am I saying that anybody else’s is. In fact, you may see me flip flop on the topics from time to time as I sometimes like to look at both sides.

What I do not want to see here is for this to turn into a flame war and/or any name calling. Remember, it doesn’t matter if you have been here for 10 days or 1000 days. Every opinion of someone that pays to play the game carries just as much weight as the next person.

A good debate can be healthy for the community and I ask you to all stay respectful here even if you disagree with something that is said here. I will start with some topics and would like to see them discussed and if anyone thinks I missed something or would like to add a topic, by all means go for it.



Replies

Ddog
Ddog
Old Shoe

Apr-18-2009 09:34

There seems to be some confusion as to what Irene's programme can and can't do. So I would like to clarify. It greatly speeds up the case solving process but it does not solve cases for you!

It can:
* Ask each suspect for it's motive and alibi automatically moving on to next suspect.
* Ask the Fortune Teller at the end to see if all suspects have been found
*Automatically check the PE of your contact against the suspects
*Visually logs all suspects, their alibi, PE evidence and all findings discovered
* Has a function to discover the 'theme' within a case (ie faction points etc)

It cannot:
* Check any non-contact evidence. This has to be done manually.
* Confirm alibis. Ditto.
* Find hiding suspects unless you have the right skill
* Ask for WE
* Accuse
* Continue if suspects clam up

So - all the logical manual requirements to case solving are still there.

I would also like to make a point which has already been touched upon. There is nothing anyone can do to stop any agent developing their own programme. No-one would ever know. So surely it's better for people to share these programmes with anyone who is interested otherwise it would be unfair.

Finally - this may come as a surprise - but I have nothing against removing high scores. Yes, it was a challenge at one point, but it would by no means spoil my enjoyment of the game if they didn't exist.


Adam Carter
Adam Carter
Big Winner

Apr-18-2009 10:19

I have to disagree with this completely. If the creator of the game says "Do not do X" then it's a rule. All the rules nicnic posted have been enforced in the past (and I can think of subscribed players that have been banned for more than one of them.) Currently, Ben is unable to be as active on the game as we would like, so he can't investigate those who are said to be breaking them. So they are under the "Honour System", but people should adhere to them, because they are rules.

Are automated helpers giving people an unfair advantage? Notepad, or even Dr. Watson have no issues, as you still have to do all the work yourself. Pidgeot's Helper is different, as it eliminates the need to do any writing. You still have to do the case yourself, as well as using skill and logic to work out when you need to stop asking for motives, who you should ask alibis for, and which questions you should ask of non-contact PE townies. If anything, it is an advanced note-taker.

I have seen the "Case Solver" in action, and it is a very different beast. People can argue about its ability to solve a case unaided, and I guess both would be correct. It *can* solve a case for you, if the conditions are correct. But, regardless, there are things that it *does* do, every time, without any interaction from the user. They are: visit suspects and obtain profiles, obtain enough motives to reveal all suspects, get alibis for all suspects, visit your contact and exhaust all questions, and provide you with a table, showing which remaining suspects can/cannot match the remaining PE. And it can do all this in under 2 minutes, by clicking just one button. That is certainly automated, and even botting - or at least "semi-botting" as it requires some user input. Even so, if this is coupled with the access to all possible contacts, a full caseload would be able to be completed in under an hour, and all without the use of any grey matter.

Adam Carter
Adam Carter
Big Winner

Apr-18-2009 10:20

Is there any skill left in the game? I feel that this game has become too easy. Not because the cases are too easy, but because there are facilities in place that remove the need for any skill or logic. It is possible, once you are in an agency with at least 4 people, to complete close to 100% AI cases using everybody's contacts. I'm sure this wasn't Ben's intention when he came up with the case files idea, but since no restrictions were put in place to stop it, people have taken advantage of it. Now, unless you do a Villain Hunt, there is no difficulty in completing cases. AI becomes simply Trivial.

Why do we share passwords? I have yet to play another game where there is an advantage to sharing passwords. Most games actually specifically disallow it and do ban players for doing it. Where else would we condone the use of password sharing? I wouldn't let anyone have the password to my email account, and certainly not for my online bank account, so why here?

Sleuth is a unique game. Since getting interest in voting for Sleuth on TWG (which you all should still be doing!) I played a number of the other games listed on there, to see what makes Sleuth stand out. None of the other games I played (about 20 so far) allow such a free interaction between players, or sharing of the device which gains experience (in this case, the cases).

I believe there should be a limit to the number of cases we can play a week. If you want to do 150+ cases a week, there is nothing to stop you getting a second detective to play. I don't see the advantages of playing so many cases on one detective, unless it is to climb the high scores list more quickly than intended. It doesn't help with Treasure Hunts, as it is better to have all favours spread out amongst detectives. Lets not forget also, that the reason we have split exp on cases was because one player abused the case files, solving 250-300 cases a week. If it wasn't wrong, he wouldn't have acted on it.

Adam Carter
Adam Carter
Big Winner

Apr-18-2009 10:20

There are some things that can be changed subtly in the game to reintroduce the challenge, that shouldn't produce much complaint:

Limit use of contacts: As we know, we can only use the crime lab once a day, so why can we use contacts so freely? I would prefer to see a system similar to the crime lab, where we could choose a case, and it would automatically match any contact PE to the suspects in that case.

Limit use of Case Files: Allow people to only open so many other detectives cases in the files a day. The only real reasons to use case files if the contact frame above was introduced would be to help unclam suspects or to solve the case.

Limit IP logins: Only allow a single IP address to log into 2 detectives a day, and allow a detective to sign in from only 2 IP addresses a day. This would cut down on abuse in Treasure Hunts, as well as limiting the number of subs a single person can control in an agency. If family units play in the same house, then a petition can be made to the admins to allow them to increase the number of logins for their specific detectives.

Disallow solving of other detective's cases: This one is a little more controversial, but there is logical reasoning behind it. If a client asks a detective to solve a murder, then they expect it to be solved by that detective. So why should someone else be solving the case?

AI favours: This would add flavour to Treasure Hunts, introducing a greater chance of having to quit a needed favour. Most people can complete 85-90% of cases in a VH, whereas its about 99% of favours.

Adam Carter
Adam Carter
Big Winner

Apr-18-2009 10:22

And of course, there was a line that precedes that very first post, but due to my lack of being able to even copy/paste with any kind of real skill, let me add that line here now:

"A rule that can't be enforced is not a rule. It's a wish."

I have to disagree with this completely....

Vampiric Smile
Vampiric Smile
Safety Officer

Apr-18-2009 13:14

I think we do not need to restrict the access to detectives (although a limit to 4 detectives seems logical and allows families to play in the game plus is giving you the chance to create all possible combinations male/female tough and male /female charm ). There are people who like to spend hours in the game and for that reason they create different detectives and they are willing to pay for them and this is fine for me. We all agree that we need people in the game so let people play the way they want especially when they are ready to invest money and subscriptions in the game.

Simply do not allow them to gain an unfair advantage. As I said you can simply do it with 3 actions. 1. Remove the High score list (individual and agency score) to correct past unfair actions and strategies and cut their motivation to use side methods to climb up.2. Do not allow a detective to hold a favor thus cutting any side thoughts of gaining an advantage in TH through multiple detective control actions. 3. Do not allow detectives to enter an Agency if the agency is participating in a TH thus cutting the further supply of cases in a TH. If these 3 simple precautions exist …there is no way left for unfair competition in the game.

And finally a last paragraph just to explain (from my small recent experience) why cases may be given from only one detective. Recently my small 18 years old daughter made an account under the name of Vampiria Dragonis and Vampirion. What she does is opening her cases with her accounts but solving them with my account VS. She does it because she is able to solve the cases faster with VS as VS is having all factions skills (not to mention that I find VS in cairo and SL). She is young and she does not wish to spent her time developing her characters and she goes for the easy solution and simply when she finish the case she gives it. I know that I risk for shady a lot but …


woody2
woody2
Old Shoe

Apr-18-2009 13:27

I will probably touch on a few things that have been brought up throughout this post along the way and remember this is just my opinion.

Eye Spy has been around a long time and things at the agency have changed over the years. When we started out we were an agency of family and friends, there were 5 of us and we each had 2 accounts. We enjoyed having TH parties, all 5 of us would get together and sit around 1 computer, have a few drinks and socialize on a weekend afternoon taking turns at the computer when the favor we had came up on the hunt so no I wouldnt want to see the number of account at an ip address limited. We would get very excited when we beat out one of the top agencies on a hunt even when we figured there was no way we would ever catch up to them and move in on the top of the high score boards.

As far as password sharing, I have nothing against it.We have never asked anyone for their password and never would but dont have anything against any member of the agency having someone elses if they want to share it. We dont condone abuse of this privelge and it is only used when a contact or favor is needed or if someone cant play and just want their cases saved so someone else can use them.

Over time we have had a lot of newbies go through the agency and try to help where we can but over time have found that you must be very careful how you help. Dont do things for them just nudge them in the right direction. It makes a big difference to how they enjoy the game and if they become a long standing member of the community.

The agency has now gone worldwide and I still enjoy seeing the newbies getting their name in the paper when they pick up one of those valued treasures or catch their first villian.



woody2
woody2
Old Shoe

Apr-18-2009 13:28

I have seen a lot of changes over the years and must say that I dont agree with them all but realize that they have been done for a reason so just adapt to the new changes and carry on. I still enjopy signing in when I can and chatting with other sleuthers and hope to be able to for a long time to come.

Well thats all I have to say for now and I realize its a lot for me to say as I dont usually say too much so enjoy and Happy Sleuthing

nicnic
nicnic
Battered Shoe

Apr-18-2009 14:16

The Use of Automated Helpers:

This thread has mostly turned into a debate over automated sleuth helpers, which to be honest is the topic on this thread that I feel the least emotion about. However I will comment on it.

I recently started using Pigeot’s helper. I never used it when it first became available. Why did I not use it? Well I guess there are 2 reasons: 1. The only thing I trust playing my cases is my own brain. 2. I enjoyed my little spreadsheet method where I had to apply all the logic myself to solve a case " I liked the challenge.

So why did I recently start using it? Well honestly, after playing 4000 cases, I am aware of all the formulas and the tricks there are to solving a case, and Pigeot’s helper made it faster and easier to organize my cases " instead of flipping back and forth between sleuth and a spreadsheet. But I can say this - I never trust it. There have been times when I’ve had a little network blip and it incorrectly identified a trait of a suspect or matched a footprint to someone when it was actually a note that I matched. So I always triple check. I never just go with the accused that the helper tells me. I make sure it is right. I look at it more as an organization tool than a case solver.

Do I think newbs should use Pigeot’s helper? No. It gives away some of the secrets and the logic that is required to solve a case. And I think that would take away some of the excitement of figuring it out on your own.

So on the topic of the most recent case solver, I personally would not use it in a million years. I actually enjoy the clicking and sitting here deciding what questions to ask who. That is, after all, how you play the game. And I guess I just enjoy Sleuth and I find it quite relaxing after a long day of work " even the repetitive clicking I have done 1000s of times. I can’t see finding enjoyment in clicking one button and getting all my motives and alibis and my PE for my contact checked in a matter of seconds.

nicnic
nicnic
Battered Shoe

Apr-18-2009 14:17

What’s the point? To me that is like deciding I want to read a novel, and just buying the cliff notes so I can finish faster. If I got the cliff notes, I didn’t really read the novel, and if you use an automated case solver, are you actually really solving a case? So I guess the question to the people who use this is, do you actually enjoy playing Sleuth, or are you just trying to move up the high scores list as fast as possible?

Are automated case solvers “cheating” or unethical? I can’t really say. It certainly doesn’t feel right. The one thing I can say is it’s not really in-line with the spirit of Sleuth.

Password sharing:

A few years ago, Ben contemplated trying to technically prevent password sharing. From everything I have read from him on this matter, he is not a fan. But it was such a common practice and the community was up in arms about it, so nothing was done. However, I can say that when he made Shades, he pre-built some measures to make password sharing less enticing - giving everyone 30 cases per day so there was no need to use other people’s cases, preventing one detective storing a case in the case files and a different detective opening the case on the same computer and solving it. In my opinion, this was to stop some of the practices that are being discussed on this thread.

What are my opinions on it? I’m not a fan. Only 3 people in the history of my detective have ever had my password. They were close friends, they were people I trusted, and it was for emergency purposes only. I don’t want other people solving my cases (my point above I only trust my own brain to solve a case for nicnic). I can see very little reason for anyone to need my password. At Eye Spy, my director has never asked for my password. And we seem to get along just fine all playing our own detectives.



  <<First Page  |  <Previous Next>  |  Last Page>>  

[ You must login to reply ]