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ctown28
ctown28
Huntsman

Apr-16-2009 10:18

I wanted to start this thread to get some opinions from others in the community about the advantages that some players/agencies have over one another. I am not saying my thoughts on them are right or wrong nor am I saying that anybody else’s is. In fact, you may see me flip flop on the topics from time to time as I sometimes like to look at both sides.

What I do not want to see here is for this to turn into a flame war and/or any name calling. Remember, it doesn’t matter if you have been here for 10 days or 1000 days. Every opinion of someone that pays to play the game carries just as much weight as the next person.

A good debate can be healthy for the community and I ask you to all stay respectful here even if you disagree with something that is said here. I will start with some topics and would like to see them discussed and if anyone thinks I missed something or would like to add a topic, by all means go for it.



Replies

Aknas
Aknas
Con Artist

Apr-17-2009 07:05

The Use of Automated Helpers

These I think were primarily created to save time in playing, thereby giving us more time for RL. First, I used pen and recycled papers (papers used for printing, but the printer didn't do it's job) Then I tried Pigeot's helper. Very useful indeed and I realized how much time I saved from using this. I heard of a very effective helper, have not tried it yet. But I heard it works wonders. Now guess what I am using? No more pen and paper for me, no helper even, not even Word or notepad... I use my mind. Just memorizing them. Goodness, do I sound like a nerd now? But yes, I just memorize. Saying in my mind, Bharati, heavy, curly, waiter, Nosveli, curly, fortune over and over again, while eliminating those with real alibis. I know it's probably weird, but it's my way of sharpening my memory. ;)

Password Sharing and Case Sharing

Tell me, whose agency isn't doing this? I think we are all guilty of PW sharing and case sharing. But where do we draw the line? There's also the very sensitive issue of the private messages being read by the third party. That thought is scary to me. Even if I've got nothing to hide, but the other person may use my account to sabotage my relationship with other players. Yes, I know this is a very sensitive topic. But this is what scares me the most. What if person X who knows my pw, logs on as me and sends a negative message to all or some of my friends. Of course, all those who will receive that message will think that it was me who sent that message. Let's face it, that scenario could be possible.



Aknas
Aknas
Con Artist

Apr-17-2009 07:07

Multiple detectives by a single player

So there is a four "honor system" rule the admin posted not so long ago. Perhaps it was forgotten by some and haven't heard of by the others. There are those who abide by it, and there are others who won't. Nevertheless, it is an honor system.



Over all, I've got nothing against a single player having multiple detectives, agencies doing case sharing and password sharing, and with people using helpers. Just as long those who are doing all that knows his or her boundaries. That there's a limit and that one should be aware not to abuse the privileges he/she has over the others.

These are all in my humble opinion.
Aknas

Eudaemon
Eudaemon
Old Shoe

Apr-17-2009 07:22

My humble thoughts:

There might one intended word missing from the subject line - 'Unfair' Advantage. Personally there's no doubt the things mentioned here give advantages in the game. The bigger question is probably whether the advantage gained is unfair, perhaps to the point that it is/could be affecting everyone's enjoyment of the game.

Case helpers - An advantage of cos, but not unfair - because everyone has access to them. None of them are so automated as to spoil the fun of case solving for you, they just help by taking out the mundane elements and stuff you might be doing on paper and pen instead. Analogy would be all the game spoilers online. They are an advantage too, it's up to the individual whether or not to use them. So this one is pretty clear to me.

I'll touch on the other areas based on topics instead:
1. Advantage from case sharing to exp up (high standing in high score list)
Not unfair - because someone paid for that subscription, so it's up to them how they wanna use their cases. Demoralised by the high score list? Just look at the number of online games out there where the high scores were plain hacked. Here people need to invest their time and money to get there. For all online games, I've learnt to just look at my own score as a way to challenge myself.

2. Advantage from multiple sub/password sharing in TH
Unfair, since there is an honor system on limit of 2 subs. But thankfully there's a new TH that comes out once one is completed. So I don't think this is something that will break the game for everyone.

My summary is that if there are those of us out there who are willing to spend more time and money on Sleuth than myself, I'm not going to deny them. The people who are hooked obviously take up multiple subs to enjoy the game even more and have a little edge. Eventually most will get tired of playing alone or always winning. I don't think anyone is abusing the system and affecting everyone's enjoyment of the game.

Makensie Brewer
Makensie Brewer
Super Steeper

Apr-17-2009 08:05

Actually, none of this bothers me.

The helpers don't bother me....The Automated Sleuth helpers, yes, I use one but it doesn't solve the cases for me, it just organizes it for me, but if you have one that solves, great for you. No skin off my nose.

Password Sharing - I'm totally with Aknas on this. It is a trust issue for me, and something I have had trouble with in the past, so therefore, I will never give my password to anyone. I have nothing to hide, but, my business is my business, and it isn't for another to read. (thats on the Sleuth mail part of it) I feel that if a detective is here daily, password sharing isn't necessary anyway. For the reasons of security, I don't feel is necessary either. Anything in the locker is easily replaceable. For more expensive items, such as Faction gear or things from the Prince, those can be locked up.

Multiple Detectives played by one or two people - go for it. It doesn't effect me any, and if someone has the time to do that, that's great. I wouldn't be as harsh as to say "get a life", noone knows that persons circumstances. So, for whatever reason a person has time to do that, which is no concern of anyone but that person, then knock yourself out!

Case sharing - Isnt that what agencies are supposed to do? It really isn't a big deal. When I was a newbie, I appreciated that help from the older ones, to help get me to where I'm at now. I still worked very hard, and nothing was handed to me. I believe, as an older detective now, it would be my duty to help a newer person out, if one was in our agency. Not to just hand things over on a silver platter, but, if I don't have time to do all my cases...I see nothing wrong with handing out my cases as free for others to do, and to help them achieve their goals.

I don't know if I missed anything, or not - if someone sparks a thought in me,while reading others thoughts, then I will post again.

*more*

Makensie Brewer
Makensie Brewer
Super Steeper

Apr-17-2009 08:12

I also don't feel that holding a favor, is cheating. It is just a strategy used in hopes of getting ahead in the treasure hunt. Everyone can do it.

That is really what I am trying to say here. Everyone here has the same opportunities to get ahead. No matter how you choose to do it. It's just a matter of who has ambition to do it.

I guess I am just easy going about things lol Whatever strategy another detective uses, does not effect me in any way. I am a competitive person, but not so much on the high score list. I figure if I want to be where so and so is, I, too, can be there....I might not be there tomorrow, but, maybe one day I will, but it's not important to me anymore. It used to be :)

I just enjoy the game, play it.....and whatever everyone else is doing around, hey, so be it! Doesn't stop my game :)

That's it for now :)

Sleuth Sindy
Sleuth Sindy
Pinball Wizard

Apr-17-2009 16:27

Everyone keeps saying the High Scores lists don't matter - so why even have them? If no one cares about them, then obviously the solution is to simply not have them, then no one can complain about someone else climbing up them "unfairly."

Issue solved.

Ben, hit the delete button!!

Joseph Zeo
Joseph Zeo
Tale Spinner

Apr-17-2009 20:48

I personally use a Mac, so when Lolita told me about the Automatic Dr. Watson, it was disappointing to find out it's not Mac friendly (as the rest of the world is), but hey there's those out there that works with Safari. So, you just need to find one that matches your computer. All in all, it's just something to hasten the mundane part of scribbling things down, in the end you still need to use your logic and deduction, which is the fun part of the game. I'd say that these readily available programs HELP players to stay on with Sleuth, not discouraging people from playing.

There will be times when I'll be away into RL where i cannot play for over 1 month. I've flagged it up before joining an agency and gave my password for that purpose. My privacy has always been respected and the account is only used for the right purposes. I'm glad I trusted the right person. Cases are also shared in the same spirit, for those who have more time during certain seasons and less time in others.

Personally i've only pass by the High Scores lists once. To those who doesn't care, it's basically non existent. So to me, it doesn't matter if Ben hit the delete button or not. I however really enjoy playing with the agency; team work is amazing, helping each other out. I guess everyone's getting from Sleuth what they enjoy most :)

Ms Helen
Ms Helen
Con Artist

Apr-18-2009 03:40

I, like a lot of people use Pidgeots helper, I don't use it to gain an advantage I use it because I care about the environment and I was shocked by how much paper I was using. I could use notepad or similar but I hate clicking between different tabs/programmes. I don't feel like it gives me an adavantage it just does exactly what I would do on paper. The Vh helper, I can see why some would think this gives and advantage. However the same info could be found on many of the agency websites even though it's not automated, even so the 1 clue rule has been known by most since not long after Villain hunts were released. The case Solver, well, I was offered the use of this when Hug first made the program and I turned it down. It's not how I like to play, it may be annoying having to click many pages but that is after all part of the game. I then heard that it has the ability to solve a case for you. This I don't agree with for couple reasons. I think it takes away the point of the game, makes the the game less fun and gives and advantage over those who don't use it. Of course I don't always believe what I hear so I decided to look at it myself. It doesn't always solve cases for you but it CAN do. On top of this it does it very quickly, allowing for more cases to be solved in a normal amount of playing time. I've heard the arguments in favour of the helper but I will never be able to get on board with it.

I know other peoples passwords and a few in the past have known mine. I rarely use other peoples passwords unless they have asked me to do something for them. Likewise people haven't abused mine, if I'd found out they had done I would have said something and changed my password. Of course PMs are a different matter, it's possible that people have read my PMs and I know it has happened to others. In my mind if someone is sad enough to go read my private mail then I feel sorry for them. Now I have other reasons for not sharing my password so don't.

Ms Helen
Ms Helen
Con Artist

Apr-18-2009 03:40






I think it was Lolita who mentioned that password sharing was compulsary in certain agencies. It wouldn't surprise me it's happened in the past. I do believe that it's your own detective and you pay for it, no one has the right to make you give up your password.

Despite arguments about how many subs you can have in an agency, it is a rule even though it's not written down. Most people have abided by this rule over the years although there have been a few that haven't. Whether it is written down or not Ben stated it wasn't allowed and I personally respect Ben enough to follow the rule. I wouldn't go to another game and say a rule was wrong and should be changed so I'm certainly not going to do it when it's made in a game I already play. Yes it is true that Ben is more easy going than many game administrators around. Does it mean because he has trusted us with the honour system approach that we should abuse it? I personally don't think so. Of course without set rules there are always going to be people who will think otherwise.

I'm for and against this rule, I've respected it and will continue to do so whilst it's in place. Personally I'm not completely against allowing as many detectives in an agency as someone wants. Having said that I have a few concerns about it. There have been and always will be people who abuse it. Having 3 detectives fine, having 12 in an agency all your own, well, there's no doubt it gives you an advantage in THs. Another concern I have is the spirit of competition. I love working with others to finish a hunt espcially when it's a neck and neck competition. It must be boring to do a hunt completely on your own.

That leads me to detctives who you control but are not yours. In my opinion using other peoples characters because for whatever reason they are inactive is as bad as having an agency full of your own detectives. It all boils down to the same thing, you have an advantage in hunts.

Ms Helen
Ms Helen
Con Artist

Apr-18-2009 03:41

Case Sharing: To me this is a bit of a grey area. I have no problems with case sharing, that is one of the reasons the case files are there for. Feeding all the cases to one detective for whatever reason I'm not so sure about. I must admit I'm slightly confused by this, maybe someone who regularly plays 200+ cases can explain it to me. Cases themselves are the same over and over again. Now I'm assuming that people can find this becomes mundane after playing so many (please correct me if I'm wrong there). Also people have mentioned they're not interested in the high score lists. So I'm curious as why those doing so many cases are actually doing them. I should point out I'm not criticising them just curious. Is it for treasure hunting or because you can?

I took a look at a lot of the games on topwebgames. I wanted to see how they differed rule wise to Sleuth. For a start every game has a set of rules. It's true we have a code of conduct, but we don't have a list of game rules. And yes I think we need a set of rules, that way arguments about grey areas in the game are going to be minimised. Of course not everyone will be happy with the rules but at least people know where they stand.

Another thing about a large majority games is anything that provides automation/does part of it for you is banned. We are very lucky to be allowed it, most games wouldn't. I'm sure people would do it but they would also risk being banned if caught.

Password sharing is banned on most games and most games only allow one account per person. Yes this brings up the issue of multiple players in one household. The way this problem is usually rectified is just having someone contact the game's admin to inform them more than one person is playing. I'm not suggesting 1 account per person here, there's no reason why it can't be made 2, 3 or however many Ben says is appropriate.

I know I am now talking about other games but only because I want to make it clear how easy going this game is.

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