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ctown28
ctown28
Huntsman

Apr-16-2009 10:18

I wanted to start this thread to get some opinions from others in the community about the advantages that some players/agencies have over one another. I am not saying my thoughts on them are right or wrong nor am I saying that anybody else’s is. In fact, you may see me flip flop on the topics from time to time as I sometimes like to look at both sides.

What I do not want to see here is for this to turn into a flame war and/or any name calling. Remember, it doesn’t matter if you have been here for 10 days or 1000 days. Every opinion of someone that pays to play the game carries just as much weight as the next person.

A good debate can be healthy for the community and I ask you to all stay respectful here even if you disagree with something that is said here. I will start with some topics and would like to see them discussed and if anyone thinks I missed something or would like to add a topic, by all means go for it.



Replies

Anikka
Anikka
Babelfish

Apr-16-2009 20:19

Password Sharing

I do understand where Ctown is coming from on this topic. Yes, if an agency shares passwords, then it's having access to several detectives at once to TH, and there really isn't a difference between that and having more than two of your own detectives in an agency. Honestly, I don't know what the solution is. I don't know if limiting IP address logins is the way to go.


Case Sharing

Yes, I'm putting this separate. You know, sometimes a person doesn't have time to finish their cases, so they want to share with agency-mates. But that's a far cry from feeding cases to agency-mates! In my agency, we often share cases and even though someone else may solve four of my cases, I may also have solved four of theirs. It all kinda evens out, eventually. But in that lies so much room for exploitation.

So this is my own personal feeling. I think there should be some kind of limit on how many cases each detective can solve per week. Slightly more than the 84 of their own cases, but certainly not as much as 150! Also, maybe to only be able to use your contacts to help a limited number of cases from the agency files per day - hey, we can only use the crime lab once a day, so why shouldn't there be a limit on contact assistence per day?

A couple of people have spoken up against what they consider the "dumbing down" of the game. I certainly don't disagree with them. Just because certain things about the game have been "compromised" doesn't mean they should remain compromised.

I'm certainly not for leaving things the way they are. I'm unable to flippantly say that no one's getting hurt. There are people struggling to achieve a goal they will never make because other people are exploiting the system. Of course, that's my own opinion, and I'm sure some players will share it, and some won't.

nicnic
nicnic
Battered Shoe

Apr-17-2009 00:37

It's too late and I am too tired to really comment on this. I may give my thoughts tomorrow on the greater scheme of things.

But one thing I do want to say is - having more than two subbed detectives in an agency controlled by one player is not an unspoken rule, it is a real rule. I will try to bump a thread where Ben clearly states this, but it has been well know for at least 3 years in the sleuth community. It's just a rule that Ben cannot enforce due to the technical constraints of the current game and the implications of trying to do something about it (i.e. a whole family that plays sleuth together). Therefore, the honor system must be in play. In addition, I believe this should apply to giving gift subs to other agents who have left the game and using their detectives. I don't see the difference. Let's not play naive and pretend there aren't agencies out there with 10-12 subbed detectives that only have 1-2 real players playing the whole agency. I don't think this is up for interpretation, it is against the rules.

nicnic
nicnic
Battered Shoe

Apr-17-2009 00:51

Not gonna bump the thread because it wouldn't add anything to the community right now and there were very different happenings back then and it is a different time.... but

From Sleuth Admin:
Nov-17-2006 00:24

I’ve always been hesitant to state rules that cannot be enforced by the game system. We tend to have a fairly civilized and community here, but that doesn’t change the fact that Sleuth is a competitive game and many of the players take that competition seriously. It is very difficult and time consuming to enforce such rules effectively.

There are four “honor system” rules that we do expect all players to follow. I’ve never listed them all together like this but they all have been publicly stated at various points in the past.

1) Abusive, obscene and uncivil posts are not acceptable on the public message boards, and repeated, unwanted private messages will get you banned.
2) Taking advantage of bugs or exploits to gain an advantage in the game is forbidden. This includes URL manipulation, cookie editing, server attacks, network sniffing, etc.
3) Repeated theft of items from agency lockers can get you blacklisted. When these situations are brought to our attention, we usually do what we can to inform agency directors and help them keep track of the perpetrator’s current detective name, but we do reserve the right to block the user from the system entirely.
4) A single player should not be the primary controller of any more than two detectives in a single agency. The only time when we can positively identify individual players is at the subscription purchase. So in practice, this is interpreted to mean that no more than two detectives in a single agency can be subscribed by the same person.

Those four rules are pretty much it. Up to this point, anything else that the system allows you to do has been considered legal.


Lolita Marinez
Lolita Marinez
Sleuth About Town

Apr-17-2009 02:12

A rule that can't be enforced is not a rule. It's a wish.

I have only been here a couple of months and I'm still learning about the site and the community. I was shocked when it was stated that some full agencies are run by only 1 or 2 people. As Ddog said "Get a LIFE!" There I said it! And I don't think they have any reason to complain about not being able to make it to the top of the list. They chose to take on such a huge load for themselves and if it is not working out that they get the high scores then they learned a valuable lesson. They ought to share the fun and enjoy some communication and pleasant interaction with other people.

I personally love sharing the hunt with my agency buddies. We chat about it in the Bar and egg each other on wondering who will get the next clue and we get excited and cheer each other when we are successful. I had thought that was the point of the Hunt. Fun, sharing, laughter and camaraderie within an agency. If there are some agencies out there who don't do it for the fun and only for the numbers on the board then I can only say "You don't know what you are missing, mate!"



Lolita Marinez
Lolita Marinez
Sleuth About Town

Apr-17-2009 02:29

And Anikka, password sharing is hugely different to controlling 2 or more of your own subs.

Your own subs means twice/thrice etc etc the work for you.

Password sharing only makes life easier for the agency enabling access to contacts and favours when the Real Person is away.

Hypothetically :- I live in Australia so my time frame is different to my American team-mates. Having access to my contacts might help them solve that extra case that means they can access their last favour for the day. They have had to do all the work while I was sleeping but it meant they didn't have to wait until I logged back in to get help. And the same for favours. It only minimizes time on a Hunt. And yes that is the big advantage but it is an advantage available to every agency so....no foul there.

InTheShadows
InTheShadows
Old Shoe

Apr-17-2009 04:58

I thought I might as well post a short notice here too. Being one of the younger detectives I might give my thoughts on this debate, since it seems the main argument is that the new detectives will feel discouraged and quit the game because of these "advantages" other detectives/agencies have.

When I first discovered Sleuth I played around with Shades and Noir at the same time for a few days under a different profile, and discovered that even though Noir isn't all that flashy as Shades is I still liked Noir better. Since I didn't know what the game was about I made a few mistakes, and after 2-3 days I gave up that character and created Shadows. I still hadn't seen what a subscription would lead to, so I decided to try it. Even though I had no tools or free cases I still reached the top of the High Score list for the novices and were contacted by a few agencies about joining them. Some required me to give up my password, others said it was optional. I'm of the opinion that my profile is MY profile, and will not share my password, even though I can see the advantages and the security in doing so. I respect that some agencies has this as a requirement and that some detectives do this voluntarily. Ddog was so kind as to accept me into Hunters even though I didn't share my password, and for this I'm thankful.

Once I joined Hunters I got some travel money (4000$ was a LOT back then) and joined the agency in Delhi. In Delhi I got a lot of help solving cases, but I feel this just gave me more experience (not measured in exp, but real experience) and confidence. I went from solving perhaps hard cases to solving the toughest cases my exp let me (at least up to IH cases). During this time I had browsed around on the message board and found out that there were programs to be used to help you solve things faster. I asked around about these programs, and Ddog told me about Irene's program. I asked Irene about the program, and she willingly let me download it.

InTheShadows
InTheShadows
Old Shoe

Apr-17-2009 04:59

I don't think I'd even talked to her before, but still she let me have her program. Just because I asked. I downloaded her program and forgot all about it. I still haven't used it, because so far I don't need to. And still, I'm not far behind on the Top Score ist... I'm a very competitive person, and I want to reach the top of those charts every time I enter a new list, but I don't feel cheated because someone uses a system to get higher than me. That just motivates me to try harder. And if we were to criticize the programs used to solve a simple case, why not mention the AVH-maps, Little-Jobs-answers, Scripted Mystery guides, Shangri-La guides and so on? In my book that's more cheat than a program which just lets you process the information you've found yourself (if I've correctly understood how the program works).


InTheShadows
InTheShadows
Old Shoe

Apr-17-2009 04:59

As for doubles and trebles and so on: it's a lot of work to keep track of all of them. I'm doing my best to keep track of one profile, and even that doesn't always work out.
And another thing: when you open the message board "Sleuth Talk" one of the sticky posts says "what can we do to help sleuth" or something like that. Well, I might be wrong about this, but I'm guessing that making a site like Sleuth takes a lot of time and money. And making money to pay the expenses, and maybe even making some money too, might lead to expansions of the game abd advertisement, which might lead to more people getting interested in Sleuth. And I might still be wrong about this, but I think that people that truly gets interested in Sleuth will play it even if other people have advantages. Otherwise there would be no subscribed players complaining about advantages.
So basically there's two ways to get money:
1. Have a profile limit, and hope people will discover Sleuth and stay for more than a month.
2. Let people have more than one profile (more than one subscription, more money, more "people" active at the same time, more "activity", maybe another reason for new people to stay - since it seems more popular and stuff), and hope people will discover Sleuth and stay for more than a month.

Just wrote down what came to mind at the moment, and hope it's coherent and that nobody got offended, because that wasn't my intention.

Vampiric Smile
Vampiric Smile
Safety Officer

Apr-17-2009 05:44

1. Helpers
If a program allows you to solve the cases faster then you have an advantage. If the program is only helping you to organize a case (like Watson’s) then it is ok.
2. Controlling or having access (through password sharing) in more than 2 characters
Is boosting Agency and individual performance thus giving advantages. The more characters you have access… the greater the advantage. Excuses for password sharing (like security reasons against thievery) are not really valid as all equipments are easily replaceable.

What can be done?
We all know that these advantages are being used extensively the last 2-3 years and have already created an established status. Restricting access to them now is not solving any problem as the status will not change. For example let’s assume that player A and agency AA are hi at the score lists because of these advantages. Restricting them and all the others from the usage of the advantages will only safeguard their position as they will not only remain in their hi positions but additionally those following will never have a chance to get them!
My proposal is to approach the whole subject with a fresh view
a. Let everybody create any number of detectives he/she likes and allow Ben to gain profit. In this way he will have the motive to further invest in the game and we all benefit!
b. Remove the Individual and Agency score lists from the game ! In this way we brake the importance of the status and we decrease the motivation of using the advantages in a less ethical way …not to mention that the game may become a bit faster!
c. Do not allow the “parking” of a character on a favor! I feel that it is very easy for Ben to make every character do 3 cases every time that the detective is activated before a random new favor. In this way nobody will be able to cheat in TH and the number of the controlled characters will not play any role. So it is very easy and simple…character is logging out-> holding favor is lost!



Aknas
Aknas
Con Artist

Apr-17-2009 07:05

The Use of Automated Helpers

These I think were primarily created to save time in playing, thereby giving us more time for RL. First, I used pen and recycled papers (papers used for printing, but the printer didn't do it's job) Then I tried Pigeot's helper. Very useful indeed and I realized how much time I saved from using this. I heard of a very effective helper, have not tried it yet. But I heard it works wonders. Now guess what I am using? No more pen and paper for me, no helper even, not even Word or notepad... I use my mind. Just memorizing them. Goodness, do I sound like a nerd now? But yes, I just memorize. Saying in my mind, Bharati, heavy, curly, waiter, Nosveli, curly, fortune over and over again, while eliminating those with real alibis. I know it's probably weird, but it's my way of sharpening my memory. ;)

Password Sharing and Case Sharing

Tell me, whose agency isn't doing this? I think we are all guilty of PW sharing and case sharing. But where do we draw the line? There's also the very sensitive issue of the private messages being read by the third party. That thought is scary to me. Even if I've got nothing to hide, but the other person may use my account to sabotage my relationship with other players. Yes, I know this is a very sensitive topic. But this is what scares me the most. What if person X who knows my pw, logs on as me and sends a negative message to all or some of my friends. Of course, all those who will receive that message will think that it was me who sent that message. Let's face it, that scenario could be possible.



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