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Dec-15-2007 12:59

So, as you may have noticed the "Beating a Dead Horse" discussion has been archived. (A post started by Roamie about the perceived steepness of Shady prices). Be assured that everyone's opinion was read and appreciated here in the Sleuth Admin household. We would like to put an offer on the table: cap at 1 mil.

Please let us know what you think and based on your posts, we'll make a decision by Christmas morning.*

*Disclaimer:
This message is not intended to promote and/or belittle Christmas. You do not have to celebrate Christmas or any other winter holiday in order to post here.

Dec-17-2007 00:21

It's interesting....When I first saw the title of this post, my first thought was that Admin was selling some new hats with Shady embroidered on them for merchandise. No caps, huh? Rats. Oh well....

It's also interesting to me how many people are seemingly coming out of the woodwork to say 'no' on the price maximum idea for Shady (again, my perception there). Over the time I've been here, this has been one of the most controversial, and in some cases, reviled, issues that there's been. There's been two 'resets' of the shady system that I know of, one in my time. They haven't seemed to last all that long. Within weeks, prices were back up in the stratosphere again, and people were asking, begging, pleading, and crying for help. There's been lots of suggested solutions, but this is (to my knowledge) the first thing to come from Admin that looks like it might be something along the lines of a somewhat-permanent solution (again, my perception here).

As I see it, if the cap ISN'T implemented, there's several other possibilities. One, the Shady system can be reset again, and possibly on a regular basis. Of course, I'm not sure how much of a permanent solution this is, but it IS an option.

Secondly, the formula for calculating Falses can be redone. This has been mentioned both recently and in the past, and it does have merit. But for those who have proposed it, I wouldn't go doin' cartwheels anytime soon. If this does get implemented, Admin's not about to go choosing one of the formulas mentioned on the boards; they'll simply come up with their own proprietary formula, just like they did with the original one. And I doubt the rate's gonna be as low as people have requested. Again, it's an option. How useful it will be and efficient at solving the current problem is up for debate.

Third, there's the possibility of doing a general price freeze for all detectives, ie.--the price you have now, regardless of your status or experience is the price you would pay.

Dec-17-2007 00:51

I have a strong feeling this prob'ly wouldn't go over well for quite a few people, but if the overall goal is to find a solution that works for nobody, well, problem solved.

Fourth, there's always the option of doing nothing for now, and keeping things as they are. Someone famous (I forget who) once said (something to the effect) that a situation keeps going as it does only until things get intolerable, and only THEN will there be an impetus to change. Shady's shenanigans may not be unbearable enough yet for enough people for there to be reason for a change. In which case, sometime in the future, we'll be back at this point again (so don't get too comfy, folks, the holiday won't last).

Ben mentioned on another thread something about, "Don't try to please everyone. You'll never win." There's a certain amount of truth in that. You can't please all the people, all the time, and it's pointless and a certain ulcer-producer to try. To me, the trick is to do one's best to find an effective solution that will serve the best interest of as many people as possible, and not have a hugely calamitous effect on the minority.

Having said all that, the cap on Shady is the most effective idea I've heard of regarding this problem since I've signed on. True, there's prob'ly a better one, but I have yet to hear it, and I'm very, very tired of having to deal with this over and over again. I sincerely doubt there's very many people who would call $1 million chump change, and putting out that much cash would put a serious dent in a person's or Agency's bankroll, regardless of the circumstances. Yes, there'll always be people who're rolling in cash. Mazel tov to them. Try not to spend it all in one place, please. For the vast majority of the REST of us, we'll still be scrambling even after paying off the million cap.

Dec-17-2007 00:57

As for the thing about using skill points with a cap, I have no clue what the originators have in mind, and there'd have to be more explanations done before I'd sign off on it.

The resurrection issue is a separate problem, and not exactly relevant to this 'shady cap' discussion, in my opinion, so I won't comment on that here.

Anyone who thinks I have just done a 'rant', feel free. After 650 days of waiting for a solution, I'm tired of waiting.

Thus endeth the reading of the lesson....;-)

By the way, Sunny, I'll take two caps, please. UPS them, thanks. ;-)

Dec-17-2007 07:16

I am not againest retirement for 3 strikes but I am againest a price so high that players can't pay, get the third and leave the game.

When I started work at the Casino as a Dealer, our Gaming Manager said, "It's easy to see the ones the win, Casinos make a big deal of those ones so you can't miss it. What is harder to see and what you don't see, is the people that lose, and they are the majority.''

I think that is the situation we have here, we see the people who say are doing well and don't mind Shady's high prices, we're not seeing the ones who leave and never come back.

I agree with Breik, I would like a formula change.
In Shanghai, Shady's price goes up $2 for an easy case doubling everytime until his price is increased to $512 for an A.I, this means you earning less than Shady's fee and when a bribe in an A.I is $500, this is nuts.

I also agree with Laura Vo that there are many more ways to deal with F.As including real money, this works exceptionally well with other games while supporting and increasing revenue for the game for other players.

I agree with the cap.

I would like to see the formula re-done or a freeze on it, a cap and retirement bought back.

Going back to the earlier quote, I was wondering if there was going to be a survey done?

Once again, we are hearing the same voices while some people never read the boards or do read the boards and do not post.

I think while it is a great intention to get a discussion going on this, I hardly think that unless a survey is sent out to everyone, an accurate opinion of the communities feelings can be gauged.

I also think it's great there is the risk involved in the game but I do think this is a game, games should be fun and I do think the risk loses players that could otherwise subscribe.

And like I said, I think bringing back 3 strikes and you're out is a great idea.
Shady however needs a huge change.

Dec-17-2007 09:18

I just have to say, I disagreed with resurrection/unretirement at the time, and I still do. The cap to me is a completely different monster. As I believe Breit said, one million is NOT chump change.

Dec-17-2007 09:52

Okay, LED may have me change my tune on this subject.

Should the formula be changed up, I'd be for a cap. :D

And yes, unretirement is a different topic, but it also is important here. Allowing people to unretire means that Shady is less important. By restructuring the Shady formula and putting a high cap on it ($1 million), you could essentially eliminate the unretirement system with little repercussion.

I'd like to see the formula changed slightly, a HIGH cap put on Shady, and unretirement scrapped. That, or leave it as is.

Dec-17-2007 15:16

I, like Breitkat, was expecting a new hat to wear. Boohoo.

I'm FOR a shady cap. One million is still a high amount for anyone.

Dec-17-2007 15:26

Maybe we can have both. A one million dollar cap for paying off shady. And then when you do pay off shady you have to wear a "shady cap" for a day. Kind of like the sleuth version of a dunce cap. lol

Dec-17-2007 16:50

The effect of Shady's prices being so hi and the simplistic formula of the way the grow higher (doubling up to more than half of what you earn for a case) causes people to be unable to pay, sit on two F.As and then become retired on a third, often which maybe a mistake even after they've checked two or three times. Therefore, I don't see how Shady's prices and Retirement are different issues as it is a cause and effect relationship.

I think a cap is needed but is a simplistic fix and doesn't fix the real problem of Shady's prices.
I'm not sure how to fix this, maybe start at a base rate for the first F.A you gain and add 5% of the reward at the end of the case to the price.
The next F.A you gain, the base price is doubled or something.
This would then penalize people who constantly gain F.As.

One of the biggest problems people seem to have (or at least how I percieved it) is that the cap will take the risk away.
]That is why I said, why not bring retirement back, it would re-add the risk the element.

As I said, I do think a formula change, a cap and bringing back retirement would keep and encourage more people to stick around and subscribe.

I really don't think it's as simple as adding a cap but if that is all that is possible that's better than nothing.

Dec-17-2007 16:57

P.s Thank you Ben and Sunny for listening and being prepared to help everyone out with Shady!