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EDITORIAL: Agencies to Blame?
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Jojo
Jojo
Old Shoe

Jun-20-2007 12:56

***This is my opinion. Strictly my opinion.***


I've looked at the community, and anyone who's been here longer than 100 days is able to see that Sleuth activity has gone down the tubes. Dead. And what is to blame? The agencies.

Now, agencies aren't the root cause. Let's get that straight. But the way they have been operating is. The problems with agencies are (1) the quantity, (2) the purpose, (3) and the role they play.

Okay, first, the quantity of agencies. Not too long ago, there were about 20-30 agencies. All full at 12 persons each, coming to a total of roughly 240-360 people. That was a good amount. But now, we have almost 120 agencies. That's right. 600% of the amount we had about a year ago. Sure, some may argue that the community has grown, and it certainly has. But 600% growth? I don't think so.

Replies

Stooby
Stooby
Well-Connected

Jun-20-2007 23:40

Just to make my point again I can fund my agency's daily rent by solving 3 cases a day or 1 favour. If this were true of every member it would add a necessity for agencies to focus and work to survive. It would reduce those that just want to chat and keep Sleuth's set on playing the game more.

crunchpatty
crunchpatty
Old Shoe

Jun-20-2007 23:43

*braids a jelly-bracelet and a cabbage-patch kid into his chest hair so people will take him seriously what with the 80s craze and all* And I'm NOT neon green!

(oh wait...you said Scrunchie, with an 'S'..my bad)

It's kind of funny, I was in chat with Jas and some other people earlier this week and there was a newbie there who asked, literally, "How do you beat this game?"

We sort of shrugged and said..."You don't".

If you look at the top 30 page right now, you see a lot of people who either recently hit 10 million exp or are hovering around there somewhere, but if you looked at it 2 months ago, you'd see it jammed full of people who had peaked and, for whatever reason, stopped playing. I know that a few of those were over various conflicts, but I have to think as well reading all this that some of them must have been over the kind of stuff being raised here about burnout, boredom and so on.

There is almost nothing I've read here that I have any argument with, and nothing at all that I have a substantial argument with, so I'm going to return to something I said earlier and take it from there.

When I asked jojo to clarify specifically what things he felt were lagging in terms of activity I was thinking about the distinction between recruitment and retention, or between GETTING people to play and then KEEPING them around. With that in mind I have some things to say about 'new things'. First, people will always find ways to use new things in ways that weren't imagined when they were introduced with equally unforeseen consequences. Second, in a game context, as has been pointed out, "new" becomes old pretty quickly, so I feel like there's a really limited amount that introducing new stuff can do in terms of retaining people.

I've said this before, but I really feel like the key to retaining people is not in the game itself (whose spontaneity is finite), but in the community, (infinitely spontaneous). Butcher's new idea is a great example of this, (more)

crunchpatty
crunchpatty
Old Shoe

Jun-20-2007 23:56

...as are any number of really cool, fun things that have happened on the boards in the time I've been here, just as I'm sure that people have enjoyed agency stuff, role-play and whatnot that happens off the boards.

Anyways that's why I was concerned about distinguishing between what types of activity might be lagging. I think the game itself is GREAT for planting the addiction bug, but it's the non-game stuff that keeps me coming back. So while I do see the connection between the two, I'd like to try to think about both fronts, because I do agree that both have slowed down a bit.

So if I haven't just ripped the prize for most long-winded post from Emma, a couple of ideas about hunting I'm just gonna throw out:

Idea the first (not mine, read it on the boards somewhere, too lazy to dig up the link):

Restrict hunts of particular levels of difficulty to agencies according to their fame. Littler hunts for less "famous" agencies and bigger ones for famehiltons like SMRT :P

Idea the second:

Make hunting more lucrative. We're actually shying away from some of the smaller multis right now because there's a pretty good chance of actually losing fame points once you factor in the lost cases due to travel and the fact that a lot of people build favours using easier cases while away from home.


Stooby
Stooby
Well-Connected

Jun-21-2007 00:49

Crunchy raises an interesting point here. Not that Ona are hugely famous!

It may be a good idea to tie in a difficulty level on hunts that sets what level cases must be solved to gain a favour, once started all in the agency have to complete cases of that level in order to unlock favours thus making the hunts more chalenging.

This though does miss one of Jojo's points if I remember rightly which seemed to be that so many agencies weren't bothering with hunts so the competativeness from them is slipping.

R Anstett
R Anstett

Jun-21-2007 03:51

I will add one small point here about "Sleuth II" as has been mentioned here.

From what we know now:

This current game is Sleuth: Noir
There will be a new game called Sleuth: City of Adventure

Radically different game in how it treats many of the issues mentioned here for burnout or lack of change. This is not an expansion of the old Sleuth, it takes the same ideas of Sleuth: Noir but the game mechanics make it a very different type of game.

One hint: Imagine if your +6 jacket became a +5 after wearing it in the rain for a couple of cases, and +4 after a month of use.

I think that there are lots of things to talk about in Sleuth: Noir about change and growth/evolution of a game community. Just do not confuse the issue with thinking Sleuth: City of Adventure is the same old thing in new wrapping paper.

Rosamund Clifford
Rosamund Clifford
Tale Spinner

Jun-21-2007 04:34

Well, I've been around for a year and a half and I'm still not bored with the game. My secret is probably that I run a small agency with two real players and four detectives, and what with AV hunts, treasure hunts and FMs I simply don't have enough time to do everything I'd like to.

Someone said that all agencies have equal chances of winning treasure hunts. That is not so. From the day we started the agency we wished for a new kind of hunt for small agencies. It's not the question of the difficulty level, but of the number of players in an agency. So I proposed to Ben to make a new kind of hunts with a limited number of players. In that case the big agencies wouldn't be excluded from these hunts, only we should say beforehand which detectives are going to participate in the hunt, like we do in the AVL matches. The hunts could be single-cities in Cairo where there are no agencies and the favours can't be held. That would really give equal chances to everyone. As there are many new small agencies, I think there would be interest for it.

Ben seemed interested, but so far I had no return information from him. The fact that our Sleuth Admin is spending his days in Cairo for weeks gives me some hope :)

Stooby
Stooby
Well-Connected

Jun-21-2007 04:59

Rosamund strikes again at making great sense (for those who haven't read her SM in Cairo what on earth are you wating for, it's great!).

The big issue I have with Sleuth 2 comming out is that it makes absolutely terrible business sense to risk splitting your own audiance. As Rosamund says if you enjoy everything in Sleuth Noir there just isn't time to keep up with it all. How can we big fans be expceted to do this and a new Slueth as well? Plus on the community side there's a risk that your character for Sleuth Noir just wont fit into the enw game.

Why oh why isn't Ben deveolping SLeuth Noir more?

Rosamund's ideas to develop Cairo are grreat, Sir Butcher De Vei's Dossier file idea is fantastic. The ability to share SM's amongst freinds has yet to come about. There seems to much still to do to Sleuth Noir that could keep interest going. A new game is going to loose it's shine just as quickly (or slowly to some of us) as this one. What keeps things interesting is development.

Don't get me wrong, flash loading crime scenes, degrading equipment, extra evidence to find - all great ideas but what was wrong with making them an addition to Sleuth Noir? I've said this before and I'll say it again, I just don't hink that I for one can afford to subscribe to 2 games.

Jojo you menace, got us all ranting and raving about anything and everything now!!!

Secret_Squirrel
Secret_Squirrel
Safety Officer

This reply has been deleted by a Moderator

roamie
roamie
Well-Connected

Jun-21-2007 05:52

Well I have been in "semi-retirement" for quite awhile now. I pop in to see what is going on, check on the agency and then pop off again. I'm glad JoJo started this post. I think some things need to change around Sleuthville and I totally agreed with Ara's post a couple of pages back ... There really is nothing left for me here except friends to visit. I think this gane is great, I remember the excitement I had as a Newbie, but since I have all my skills, over 10 mill exp points, been on Treasure Hunts and AV Hunts I feel I've done it all.

I think some rules need to change regarding agencies. And I am being totally hypocritical since I am a member of the GSS and my agency was started by two newbies! lol But I think maybe we need to rethink the "sister" agencies and maybe put an age limit on starting a new agency.

BTW, Its nice to see an active post again!!



Jojo
Jojo
Old Shoe

Jun-21-2007 10:16

*is extremely happy with where this post has gone*

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