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Sep-27-2004 11:21

I want to open up discussion about whether somebody should be allowed to have more than one detective in an agency, and if so, how many.

The official policy is that no more than one detective from any single IP address is allowed in a given agency. I haven't been particularly clear on the issue, nor have I enforced it particularly vigorously, so it's understandable that a lot of people didn't realise that was the rule. If we continue with that rule, I should probably at least add a more obvious notice to the "Invite Detective" screen.

The argument for having a limit is that it is a competitive advantage to have several agents controlled by a single person, because it makes coordinating on hunts easier.

Some points:

1) No system for identifying multiple accounts is 100% accurate. Some people have accounts at work and at home, some have dynamic IP addresses that switch, some have shared IP addresses, where different people at different locations can look like the same address to me.

2) There are a few instances of where players share a computer. For example, Sunny and I both play from home, and therefore the same IP address.

3) Some people have multiple detectives just for the fun of it, and don't use that to competitive advantage. There are a few of the smaller, less competitive agencies where users have more than one detective. they just enjoy being able to share items and cases between detectives and rarely even get involved in hunts.

4) A lot of agencies share passwords. In those cases, somebody may log in with their teammate's accounts often. If they do that, it can look like they are coming from the same IP address, depending on when I look.

So, let me know. How would you like this issue handled? Should there be a limit to the number of agents from a single IP address in an agency? If so, what should it be? Should the game enforce that limit, or should I do it by hand? Should the limit apply to non-competitive agencies?

Sep-28-2004 02:20

First of all, I think it is truly awesome, that so many people come forward and be honest about this. OK we know we have all been doing it, but to come clean about it publically is another thing.

Ok, now I am wondering, are there any agencies that do not have double characters, and also do not share passwords? They may have an entirely different take on this.

Inherently, if one person has 12 agents, then they are still doing the work. Even if they slide to number 1, they are spending a significant amount of time playing this game.
And deserve to be at number 1.

However, I too like Orbitrux, have been struggling with the repetition of this game. And the reason why I mentioned for all of us to go back to single characters, is that I would be interested to see what happens. You would not be able to compete because of playing more agents, but being able to compete by taking risks, be forced to do team work etc.

If we were to take away double agents. Then I think we should open case files to be unlimited. Then still an agency that cooperates, and does team work has an advantage. Also additional features to for instance to be able to play with two physical evidence contacts if you play etc.

Avarra is right, password sharing is tied to the multiple agent question. It boils down to the same thing.

My closing words are, those top agencies/players, and top players that are not coming out of the woodworks right now. We know you are doing it, you may as well come clean, to not loose face. :)

Those that do play this game 100% on a single character, and do well, a lot of respect to you.

Sep-28-2004 03:06

Myself and one other member are presently multiple players [is this what alcholics anynomus feels like],and after reading the posts agree that 2 covers thoes who share a computer, like do extra cases or help out more at the agency.Up until a day or two ago I'd never shared log in codes but from reading the others see it is a common occurance.I've rejected prior to this any one even offering me their's as it concerned me that this would become a prerequisite upon joining an agency and remaining in an agency. By the way jstkdn the only reason I did'nt post sooner was I was to busy solving cases and reading this thread. Oh and I like some of your previous ideas.

Sep-28-2004 03:56

Not sure if this needs to be turned into to a confessional for addicted Sleuth-players – *lol*– hi my name is Detective X, and I'm a double player... :p

Anyway, (and thanks Ben for opening the debate on this issue) maybe that's exactly the point (in reference to jstkdn's post) that those agencies, who don't play like that, don't do nearly as well. Guess the "top" agencies will just respond that these agencies can just get in the game if they want to compete and do the same as everyone else seems to be doing – but why does that have to be the game, why is it necessary to have more than 1 detective per person within a single agency? I know full well this game is terribly addicting, but still if there's a need to do more cases then why not just create 100 unsubscribed detectives to play around with - just keep them out of the whole agency deal??

So it probably won't be a big surprise when I think 1 detective per actual person within a single agency should be the limit (but I know that keeping control over this is very difficult, and don't have a suggestion at the moment as to a way of handling it). And neither am I surprised that most of the people who've replied to this topic so far are among the people who have more than 1 detective already (they are among those who play the most anyway), I'd just love to hear what all the people with only 1 subscribed agent think – but hey, maybe they couldn't care less. Personally I just find all these doubles annoying, and the way things are going it seems to me that the next step is an agency with 12 detectives who all create doubles, put those in a spare agency, and then switch back and forth between the two agencies with their 24 agents - and I can already hear the choir going, oh but if they want to play it that way, just let them.

As for the sharing of passwords situation, what can I say but yeah been there, done that – and knowing full well this probably gives an even greater advantage than having doubles, I'm stil

Sep-28-2004 03:57

Oops to long, it seems.

...a bit torn on this point, as it is (as so many have pointed out) a reflection of the team spirit within an agency. Need to give this issue some more thought, and get back to it later, since I don't have more time on my hands right now :)

Sep-28-2004 05:57

Well, lets say all top 20 agencies volunteer to let double characters, and refrain from sharing passwords for one week? See if we like it or hate it. This requires some trust in the no cheating arena. Besides, we can ask Ben to do a check. I fully realize, this is easy to say for someone who is not in the top 5, so only a suggestion, no hate mail. If we are really concerned about that part, we could ask Ben to re-set the agency standing at the end of 7 days, to where it is now. If at all possible.

Another question, is there anyone other then Sunny and Ben, actually sharing a computer at home????

Sep-28-2004 06:00

Bella, I hear your alcoholics anonymous remark here!!! I am jstkdn, and I am a sleuthaholic.

Sep-28-2004 06:38

As I said earlier, Hakunamatata and Elvenwonder are two people who share one computer at home, but we also share passwords and two other characters. It sometimes seems we log on as each other as much as ourselves, as whoever has time works cases.

We would be willing to give up our two extras, but have them since we are establishing a new agency. It is really hard to recruite people to a new agency, and found that this at least gave us a few agents and contacts to help us get established.

Sep-28-2004 08:58

I've said this in a different thread, but perhaps it was taken as facetious, but: Why not just eliminate treasure hunts altogether? OR (MY personal favorite option!) make them more of a TOURNAMENT OF CHAMPIONS style, where each interested team selects someone to represent them in the hunt, and all they do is a favor for every shopkeeper, and then the winner would be based on time it toook to complete the whole series. This way, said representative can start whenever it is convienient for them, and the winners are announced at the end of the day.

Sep-28-2004 10:58

I may as well chime in here. My agency was probably part of the reason we're discussing this, because we solved a hunt very quickly a couple of weeks ago, and actually another one last night (a few minutes before ERF solved a separate one). So Chron and I seem to be in the spotlight, as we're doing a lot of the solving and people might consider it unfair.

As Chron said in his first post, I didn't come in to this trying to have 12 players controlled by me. I don't even prefer this, because it takes a long time to play all of the cases. We started out with 12 people creating separate accounts and joining together in an agency, and some people got busy with other things and now play less often. If they weren't going to play each day, I would bug them mercilessly until they dropped off their extra cases into the files for the rest of us to solve. This got annoying on both sides, so eventually we began sharing passwords so that we could log in and drop off their cases.

So with that bio out of the way, I hope everyone realizes that I have no ill intentions. I'm simply trying to use all of the cases from our subscribers to their maximum benefit to the agency. I'm not trying to cheat the system, rather I want to be able to do the same thing as an agency full of competitive players, even though not all of our agents are. A few of the other agents play most days, but there are always several agents that wouldn't get played if we couldn't share passwords. Perhaps that's the price we pay for having a group of friends in an agency where some of us aren't as competitive as others. Maybe we need to kick out the inactives and recruit other active sleuths, but that would transform the agency from our group of friends into a gaming clan.

(to be continued...)

Sep-28-2004 11:10

(oops that previous post was me, I guess I wasn't paying close enough attention) =)

So with all that said, I'm willing to only play my character but there's not much else to accomplish on my own since I already have all of the skills that I need. I doubt that our agency would be competitive if we couldn't share our extra case files through sharing passwords, and treasure hunts are the main reason that we play. We give cases to our less experienced players so that they can be more helpful in the treasure hunts, and we all toss in extra cases for others to solve as anyone has time. We are in different time zones around the world so it's quite difficult to coordinate treasure hunts without sharing login info. As someone said, it's really not more efficient for one person to do all the work since they only have one keyboard working. A well-oiled agency with 12 people working together would be better for all involved. There's no way anyone can solve cases as fast as a team working together.

I appreciate everyone else's honesty and if it is deemed to be unacceptable to play the way we have been, we'll just have to accept that and move on.

I would like to see other kinds of individual competitions as Chron suggested. I'd like to go head to head with him and anyone else and see who is really a better sleuth. Maybe there could be some other metrics like number of clammed witnesses, number of pieces of evidence you found for the guilty party, and number of questions you needed to ask. That would be a true test of skill, along with a little luck. We could get some kind of award for the agency, and we could have different competitions - maybe one for using charm skills only and another for toughness only. Those are just a few ideas that I had. Let's help Ben make the game even better with more suggestions for the long-time players to test their skill.