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Apr-23-2004 19:49
(sticky post)

So, looking at the web logs, I know that we have players here from about 30 different countries. I just thought it would be interesting to put somes names with places.

My wife and I live in Boulder, COlorado in the U.S. Where the winter has returned for the weekend. We actually moved here pretty recently from Seattle, which is my home town.

May-9-2005 12:07

Uhm I never said that The Netherlands isn't a country. Last time I checked, it was, or I wouldn't have a passport. :)

Holland is NOT a country, but a nickname of one, being The Netherlands.

And I know that Texas is not a country and I never said it was, however it is geographically way bigger, with more people, more richer, more a lot of other stuff then a small ass country like the Netherlands.

The reason why I am different from many europeans. Because yes some general statements about Americans may be true......but the many American people that I know, love, work with do not have a tag on them that says "I fit a stereotype, and I am not an invidual, I am a clone of all the other millions of American the same as me."

Sure some American stereotypes are for a lot of Americans true. But you know what, for some reason a lot of people in the world just want to see some bad sides to Americans. While they can lie comfy, and be lucky with their positive stereotype. Generally, all cultures and the people living it have good and bad sides. You should look at both.

And definitely not judge, until you say you thoroughly understand their culture as they live it. And for that you need to have lived there, really understand them, have known many of them, taken a lot of classes in cultural appreciation and intercultural communications. And even then, you don't even fully grasp it. Instead of seeing it through the glasses of interpretation that you learned from having grown up in your own culture.

For instance, and example.
Stereotype:
Americans are loud.
- I know a great amount of Americans that are just as loud as Europeans, or less loud.
- American culture in itself communicate differently in social situations.
- While being loud is not acceptable in european culture, in American culture this could be different.
- Loud could also be an expression of excitement in some cultures
- Or if you want to compete in a discussion, being louder expected.

May-9-2005 12:15

- Being soft spoken are in some cultures considered a great quality, while in others they are considered weak.
- Being loud in sometimes in some countries, the only way to be heard.
- Some country just have really loud noises, and if you want to be heard....

So there are many reasons. Though in Holland it is not a good quality to speak really loud and considered offensive and rude. If I would judge another culture based on the rules I grew up with, I would be SURELY mistaking.

The Dutch are known for their prostitution, drugs, and their frugality. I am not a prostitute, nor a drug dealer, and I am not frugal. And you know what, I'd be pissed if someone said "The Dutch...."

The only culture I really care the comment on without any pre-judgement, is my own.

You may never know....how another country looks at your culture.

You come for instance from Thailand, do you smile and laugh all the time? Do you sell your children off to become prostitues in Phuket? And do you throw westerners in jail to die in Bangkok Hilton prison? Do you work in a rice field? Are you poor without money/food/aircon/roads/electricity/education? Do you sell thai hashies which is considered one of the best in the world?

May-9-2005 12:26

You which people I find dumb. Are the ones that think they have completed years of understanding and study, in to judging a society not their own.
And those that never closely "know" and I mean really know many people from another culture, never lived there, or never tried to understand.....those I'd like whipe my rear end with.

I have a father with dutch and german parents, a mother who is Indonesian, and I spent a lot of time in Europe and Asia. Man, if I had to take on the bad stereotypes people around the world give the dutch, the germans, and the Indonesians (particularly considering their corruption, bali bombing, their treatment of some smaller islands etc.).....I may as well give up on life, and meeting other people.

May-9-2005 12:30

Was I being an opinionated Dutchie here?

(please don't judge me. In my culture it is a sign of strength and intelligence.)

May-9-2005 14:43

Heck, I'm happy if people know Idaho from Ohio and Iowa.

May-9-2005 15:35

LOL. Maybe I have a little bit of a soft spot for Americans. If it wasn't for them, I'd be speaking German right now. :)

I am not a really nationalistic person. But I have always been really proud that The Netherlands was the first country that diplomatically recognized the United States as a state and country, and not part of the British Empire. We also financed the war against the British to do so.

May-9-2005 15:36

Oh my god, I have a double is that allowed?
And I have one in an agency, and one that is not in that agency. OHMYGOD! hahah

May-9-2005 15:56

hehe jstkdn! you need to keep track of yourself! You've got lots of little clones running round! :D

May-10-2005 05:21

jstkdn, I think you misunderstood my post completely.

First of, I neither said that the Netherlands and Lithuania isn't a country, nor I said that Texas and Wisconsin is one.

Secondly, I never said that you don't know about the above facts. I know you're an educated woman, jstkdn. And I know that you know a lot more than me.

Thirdly, I didn't try to bash Americans in that post at all. The only degradatory thing I said is "SOME of them REALLY are (ignorant.)"

And you have to atmit it, although there're many self-concious Americans, there're also those who are ignorant to anything from the outside world and only care about themselves. Sometimes they even ignore their own unfavourable history. I've met them before, lots of them. That's why I stopped posting in American webboards for more than a year - I was just tired arguing with them.

On the other hand, I also met some intelligent and educated Americans - on the internet, on the news, in the books. I understand that every country has good and bad people. So, please don't think I'm trying to bash Americans as a whole here.

The point I was trying to make, however, isn't about the intelligence/ignorance of Americans at all. I was arguing about the importance of a country versus a state.

Let me reiterate myself again:

"The fact that these countries have their own culture, language, government, and a seat in the United Nations means they deserve more recognization than an American state."

See? No American bashing. No stereotype using. And I hope, no offense taken.

Of course, Texas may be bigger, more richer, more populated, than Lithuania, Faroe Islands, or as you said it yourself - the Netherlands. But the fact is, it's not a country; it's a state in the United States of America, which is a country. Although it is the home of the current US president, Texas is not recognized in international politics, while the Netherlands and Lithuania is. That, to me, is the different magnitude of importance.

May-10-2005 05:45

From my point of view, every country is equally important and deserved the same recognization, be it the USA, the Netherlands, Lithuania, Faroe Islands, or Thailand. And every state inside a country is deserved the same recognization as another state in another country. It's not wrong not knowing where Texas is as long as you know where the USA is. And it's not a shame that you can't point out where Texas is on the USA map, if you can't also point out where Bavaria is on the Germany map.

That's why I think it's not wrong for any European not remembering American states, but it's wrong for any American not remembering European countries.

And that's why I have to disagree with your on whether Lithuania or Texas deserve more recognization. In my opinion, it's wrong to think that an AMERICAN STATE is more important than a SOVEREIGN COUNTRY.

Nothing against America, nothing against the Netherlands, nothing against you, jstkdn. I am just stating my own point of view. That's all.