Sleuth Home - Message Boards - The Gumshoe Lounge


0 0
OT: Tsunami, Earthquake . S & SW Asia
  <<First Page  |  <Previous Next>  |  Last Page>>  

Rivergallery
Rivergallery

Dec-26-2004 17:22

Just wanted to put out my thoughts and prayers to family and friends of all those lost, and suffering loss of life, home and general safety due to the Earthquake and folowing tsunami and aftershocks of Sundays (Sumatra time) (8:00 p.m. EST Saturday evening).. which is about 6pm sleuth time I think.

Anyway Delvin is in Singapore and he should be safe, but usually logs on daily and I haven't heard from him, and he does know people that would have been in effected areas.

So any good thoughts you want to send him, or people there feel free to add on to my posting.

HOPE if anyone else here lives in SAsia or SW ASIA are safe and everyone they know are also.

Again Prayers and my good wishes to those in that part of our world.

Rivergallery.

Replies

jstkdn
jstkdn
Well-Connected

Jan-1-2005 07:47

Yes I do, uh, but have you ever been in Asia? Lived there, talked to the people, or even the prostitutes? I have. I realize your message is well intentioned. But misses some deeper reasoning and hands on knowledge. And though well intentioned, and not wanting make them sound backward. You inherently, although meaning well, do.

I actually sent what you wrote to a few people over there, as we talked about this view before. And I hope what a friend of mine wrote and that will hopefully make you understand, LOOSE translation:
Is that how everybody sees us? I feel so embarrassed you think about us that way. Is not true. Is not right. We think and live differently here. I feel judged by your standards, and assuming. I feel she is really talking down to my education and my home. I would never willingly put my child up for prostitution. Really, honest, I would not do that. I don't need an airconditioner, and why does he want me to have a heater? The problem, if my job was taken away, and my family died, and I was injured, I would not survive. But the way I live now, although the same as she describes, is good. I am happy. And I like living with all of my family. Phuket is an evil place I hear, where fat white people, abuse our children. Life is sometimes hard here, and I hope our new president in his palace will do something about it. Like you said fighting corruption, and our system. Also the big companies from America and Europe. And the way the foreigners see us. I have never been Africa, but I tink it is different there."

With those words, I want to close the discussion off. It is from someone whom lived in Asia all of her live (never left her island actually), and lives in the same place you think you are describing. As I got upset about it, I got rather wordy about it, to defend my people. And with that, I am sure annoyed people on this board, although no one said so. I apologize.

This is will be my last msg here. As I think my friend can speak for herself.

Madame TBird
Madame TBird
Well-Connected

Jan-1-2005 12:28

I was not trying to stereotype all of the citizens within the disaster zone. I was merely trying to point out just giving aid is not enough for some sections of some of the countries. I in NO WAY meant to sound discriminatory & I believe you have taken the point I was trying to make out of context. With regard to twisting it to sound like I meant ALL people withing a given country. EVERY country on this earth has societal ills to be addressed. I understand that people adapt in various ways given thier circumstances. My point was that while so many countries & governments are finally focused on this part of the world. It is time to step up to the plate & help the disadvantaged to over come some of thier unfortunate circumstances.
The western companies that already exsist in these countries have gotten wealthy off the peopple's cheap labor. Factories that pay $15.00 an hour here, move somewhere like China, India, Mexico or wherever. They then pay a laborer like $2.00 to $5.00 an hour. It has makes me sick, that a CEO can be that greedy. It is unfair. The people work just as harder probably even hareder & are taken advantage of. Why, because they are thankful to have a job. Not only that, the same company here will offer benifits: health insurance, retirement, vaction & sick days with pay etc. I believe in equality in ALL people that no one person is any better than anyone else. What I have been trying to say is that even the foriegn companies should be treating these people right & opening the doors of opprtunity for them.
To your friend in Thialand, tell her apologize if what i said hurt her feelings. I know they good people there have to be embarrassed. I wasn't the finger at Thialand though. It are some of the perverted foreign tourists taking advantage of the people there. It is not the citizens of the country abusing these kids. Tell her I said my heart goes out to the ones that have to live there & hear & know about what goes on.

Madame TBird
Madame TBird
Well-Connected

Jan-1-2005 12:38

Also that MAYBE this disaster will somehow be able to bring about a change. That the world can unite to make things better for them. Where they need it or want it.
I didn't mean to offend her about the air conditioner. America is spoiled. I admit it. The way I see things though. I think everyone in the world deserves all of the luxuries we have here. If they want them. The companies should be held responsible enough that by golly, if they pay Joe $18.00 an hour here plus benefits, they are to the same for any worker in the world. The UN needs to step up to the plate & do what they are intended to do. Go in & educate the people in remote areas, bring good paying honest jobs, pave roads to make goods transport easier, provide clean running water, teach the people about disease prevention, crack down on pedophile tourists, innoculate the kids & figure out ways to improve agriculture. To accomplish this it will take a lot of work. It may sound cynical to you but, I honestly belive it can be done though.
With my point finally clear I hope I have cleared the air of any confusion you may have had. Thank you for the enlightening post from your friend too.

jstkdn
jstkdn
Well-Connected

Jan-1-2005 15:38

You are right about the above. I mean stop buying Nike shoes, or drinking Coca Cola, using gasoline and light bulbs won't help. :) When I was writing my thesis, I tried to stop using anything that came from a multinational that was in those countries. But then a friend pointed out, sure you clothes may have been put together in a factory out here....but where do you think the materials comes from, and the die (dye...sp? coloring???) that colored it?
Darn!!!! :) However, knowing that the box in which you buy your Nike shoes, are worth more then their days wages. Is so depressing.

There is one thing that I realized though (other them then buying the Nike's themselves if they could regardless of their neighbour making them.) There are ways that they can feel sorry for us. Their sense of family values are amazing. It is amazing how foolish we are attaching our happiness to materialism. While they don't let their happiness depend on that.
Unfortunately, I had to help people with hospital bills. That shows how fragile things are. Something unexpected happens.....and the easy solutions we have are not there. Sure there are doctors, but you can not afford those on a wage of 450 dollars a year, unless you want to starve.

I would agree with you, I prefer aircon in Asia. But I grew up spoiled. :) But it is amazing how fast you get used to it, and don't even want aircon, because then you catch a cold in a second. If no one has aircon, you wouldn't even think of getting one, would you.

I hear you on that. I think changes can be made, it should be possible. But then I think of human nature, our own role, our governments, or economies. It seems that our wealth, has a dependency on some other peoples poorness. In the US or Holland, or any other western country it works this way, the very rich, and labourors underneath. In Asia it works that way even that same way, from some living in a palace, to the guy that sleeps in a riksja. In a world economy it is the same.

Madame TBird
Madame TBird
Well-Connected

Jan-1-2005 15:52

Jstkdn,
What a very eloquent insight. I agree, the west has shamefully put wealth before human dignity. Family values have began decline while materialism has increased. I love the way that part of the world loves & cares for not only immediate family but extended family as well. They hold thier parents & grandparents in the highest esteem. I don't know about your society but it has become easier here in America to hire a nurse to stay w/the elderly or stick them in a nursing facility. Than for thier children whom are much too busy making the American dollar to care of them. This is whole other area though & I don't won't get off subject. Except to say that no dollar value can be placed on good old fashioned family values.


jstkdn
jstkdn
Well-Connected

Jan-1-2005 15:56

And yes, you are dead on, it is in remote areas of those countries that there is a problem. But also in the big cities (as they are in our cities as well, I mean we have slums, and rich areas.) The rich are VERY rich there, and the poor are VERY poor there.


jstkdn
jstkdn
Well-Connected

Jan-1-2005 16:07

Well yeah it works the same here Tbird. We take better care of our prisoners, and our new arrived (moslim) immigrants, then we do our elderies (whom helped build up this country post war.)

I can see the difference you mentioned about the elderies, between my Dutch family and my late grandma. Vs what my Indonesian does for my still living grandpa. He remarried a Dutch lady, her family does shit. My family cleans, cooks, takes care of them on roster 24/7.

However, I do believe in our individualism, just as much as my indonesian family collectivism. You do need to build your own happiness, and one should not necisarily let an eldery person infringe on that. At the same time, there are other solutions. My family handles it Dutch style, as they did not take my grandpa in to their own home, as they would have if they stayed in Indonesia (not that they could have, they were boat refugees and fled the country.) But they are not hiring a nurse either. Luckely a typical Indonesian family, is quite large. :)
I mean I would not take in my grandpa in my home. But I happily take part in the roster, of doing some shopping, cooking, and baby sitting grandpa every couple of weeks.

I have a lot of friends critizing me to take care of mom, when she is doing badly. But when they talk about the relationship with their mom, I feel the luckiest person in the world.

Madame TBird
Madame TBird
Well-Connected

Jan-2-2005 09:59

So, true Jstkdn, everything you said. Here we have home health where the elderly can stay in thier own home or live w/thier kids. A nurse comes in & checks on them. If they are bad off, a nurse will sit w/them 24/7. It does take some of strain off families who choose not to stick them in nursing home. You are right that some cultures rely on extended family to help w/elderly.
Before Americans got so busy, kids would take care of thier parents. The elderly would live with them until they died. Even within the least century, this was the norm. That is sadly an era goneby & I deeply admire cultures that still believe in family values. With respect to loving & caring for the whole family. Americans relish family values, yet some things have been lost through the fast paced world we live in now.
That's sweet you do errands for your grandparents. It was funny & I know what you mean about your mom. Who are some people to criticize you, when they can't even stand being around thier own parents.

jstkdn
jstkdn
Well-Connected

Jan-2-2005 15:45

Is it just me? But most if not all of the footage I saw were mainly from Thailand, and Sri Lanka? I have been scanning like mad on CNN, the dutch news, BBC world news etc.

I heard on CNN that the most victims actually fell in Indonesia (80.000.) But I have seen little or nothing. I am so afraid they still can not be reached. And if reporters don't even make it there, I can only help but wonder if the aid workers can get there.

A piece of good news. Today on CNN there were the ambassadors of Thailand, Indionesia, and India, and I believe also Sri Lanka on (the was a fourth anyway), they all said there were for the first immediate needs now (i.e. offering medic care, food, and shelter, unfortunately not much rescue can be done) enough money coming in from North-America or Europe. Some European countries and the US also sent helicopters, which are of great help.

Unfortunately they also grilled the India ambassador why India has one of the most advanced weather monitoring systems in the world, but not something for the ocean. Don't get how you go from amount of deaths, to rescue efforts, and aid to a finger pointing game. I think it is because the presenter made this comment about aid given to India, and the ambassador proudly corrected him saying they have not received outside help, because they declined it and can take care of their own. Make the presentor look like a fool.

Also the stupid presenter started grilling the Indonesian ambassador if it was true that Moslim countries, except for a small fee from the Saudies donated nothing. It was quite embarrassing for the Indonesian. Sure I would like to say "there you go Indonesian moslim terrorists, where are your friends now." But still.....we are talking victims whom have nothing to do with terrorism. Grrrrr.
Also grrrr that the Middle-East barely donated anything.

Apparently in Thailand 50% of the victims are tourists, mostly western Europeans. Make sense, as the vacation spots were hit.

Madame TBird
Madame TBird
Well-Connected

Jan-3-2005 18:30

Yes, that was my intial frustration that the media seems more focused on the wealthy tourists than anything else. It has aggrevated me to no end. They seem to choose to ignore the population that actually lives in this region & they are the ones that literally lost all they have. Thier family & friends, homes, jobs etc. It has affected thier entire way of life. While a majority of vacationers only lost out on a good holiday. I know some perished. Not to sound cruel. Thier families back in thier homelands were not nearly as unfortunate as the islanders etc. Can the media NOT SEE the whole picture??? These people not only lost thier spouses and or children. In some cases nearly thier whole extended families perished. Yes, it's sad that some tourists are gone. I have hard time feeling as sorry for them as I do the people that lived in these areas. I really wish the media would shift the attention from the resorts to the populations that are really devastated. Saw yesterday where Thialand's beaches are open again. So, it's time for the media conglomerates to move on. I want to know so bad how the Indians, Sri Lankans, Indonesians, etc are really coping & what is being done for them.

  <<First Page  |  <Previous Next>  |  Last Page>>  

[ You must login to reply ]