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Would you visit me and help me?
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Irene
Irene

Nov-26-2009 13:54

Some time ago, a thread was posted: what can I do for Sleuth? - and I was thinking about it. At that time, when I told about what I thought I could do, I was told that my "developer team" dream was completely dead. And, perhaps it was, in the format that was availiable at that time?

As some of you might know, I am a programmer of heart. People have been frustrated with me because of this earlier, but I do hope we may put this behind us? I have never forced anything onto any of you. My offer have always been completely free, for those who actually want it.

Same is true this time. I have noticed that other web pages that support Sleuth go inactive, and want to do something about it. I am working on putting up a web site with what I hope will be inspirational to some of you. (www.playsleuth2.com) If you visit and find that you don't like it, then, please don't return. The site is only intended for those of you who actually do like it and would want to help me extend it. Not everyone.

It's MUCH undone at the moment, but I AM working to get something up. The site is intended to be a place for the part of the community that always wanted to help add and give back to this great game. I hope you will understand that it's no competitor to the original - rather the oposite. It's meant to be supportive. This is "my" development team idea put into action, and I do hope you will see it as my contribution to what I can do for Sleuth.

There is a LOT I CANNOT do for Sleuth, and that's why I would like to connect with people who want to help. Especially writing and collecting...

Those of you who want to help me, send me a PM.
Those of you who don't want to, please don't mind what I am doing.
Want to know what it's about? - read the idea page.
Not everything is nailed down yet, and I would be happy to get suggestions.

This is intended as a one-time-post. Want to get rid of it? - bring other threads into focus. ;-

Replies

shell marple
shell marple
Con Artist

Nov-27-2009 09:02

I'm sorry Irene, but I don't really understand what you are attempting to do? You say you are creating a developmental site to help better Noir. I quote

" The site is intended to be a place for the part of the community that always wanted to help add and give back to this great game. I hope you will understand that it's no competitor to the original - rather the opposite. It's meant to be supportive. This is "my" development team idea put into action, and I do hope you will see it as my contribution to what I can do for Sleuth."

So far I think I follow, but here is where I get lost. If the administration does not want or use your ideas or help, then what will your website end up being. It won't be used for your stated purpose, it will in fact become a direct copy and extension of an already existing game. Hence infringing on the copyright of Hypothetical Software. Also it will then be in direct competition with Sleuth Noir.

I fully understand the desire to help expand this game, but in the end it is not ours to fix, change, expand without the consent of the creators/owners. Hopefully you love this game enough to suspend your site until you get full approval from Ben. Respecting the administrations wishes is the best way to show your love of this game.

Joseph Zeo
Joseph Zeo
Tale Spinner

Nov-27-2009 11:01

From what i know, Irene does have the green light from Ben. I don't know all the details and I am sure Irene can explain it better.

I haven't got time to go through all the posts on this thread, but it seem like there are some objections and comments. I agree with VS on that a private message should be sufficient. Again, Irene said, "Those of you who want to help me, send me a PM. Those of you who don't want to, please don't mind what I am doing. // If you visit and find that you don't like it, then, please don't return."

I think we should keep to the topic of this thread, as i see that some are giving constructive comments :) I do want to help and be a tester, when i have the time. I just hope that when i do and my comments starts pouring in, it won't give Irene a headache! :P

Sleuth Sindy
Sleuth Sindy
Pinball Wizard

Nov-27-2009 11:30

How will it be in competition with Sleuth: Noir?

You cannot use Irene's website unless you have already created a detective through the "original" Sleuth. Ergo, if you are going to subscribe, you have to subscribe to the "original" Sleuth.

In any event, I'm sure three or four URGENT messages have been sent to Ben and undoubtedly we will know for sure whether Irene's project has Ben's blessing or not in the near future.

Do any of you know for sure that Irene DOES NOT have Ben's blessing? If not, then I suggest we just wait.

shell marple
shell marple
Con Artist

Nov-27-2009 12:50

Apologies on jumping to hasty conclusions. But I would have to say it is valid for people to wonder if she has Ben's approval. And if all the voices I've heard are correct then it looks like there is a new and interesting feature about to burst on the scene. Good luck with it.

Now waiting Ben's confirmation. Only because it makes me feel better to hear it out of the horses mouth. Or in this case the sleuth gods mouth.



Secret_Squirrel
Secret_Squirrel
Safety Officer

Nov-27-2009 15:09

^ what she said. lettin it all slide til someone confirms this a hypothetical software approved doohicky. no use goin off half-cocked.

Irene
Irene

Nov-28-2009 07:00

Ok, let me try to address some issues:

Bens confirmation: I presented my ideas and plans for Ben a couple of months ago in a mail, and recieved what I believed to be a positive response. As you and I know it's no guarantee for his opinion today, but in my eyes an indicator. We will wait to see what he says.

Security: YES, the fact that your are allowed to log in to "Sleuth original" from the site, makes it a "man-in-the-middle"-thing. It's the major concept of the idea. If I wanted to, I would be able to sniff all passwords and usernames that was put up there, as well as other information. Out of that reason I put "someone looking" to be on top of the page all times, as well as the note on logging. You will have to trust me/the site to not do so on my word. I suggest you try first with a newly created character that's not important to you. Looking at it a second time. I have control of more than enough characters, and don't need any more. Have actually come to the point where I don't really want to know more passwords, because of the responsibility. What would I gain by more passwords, except more enemies? I cant come up with something that would be a gain for me. Still you will have to decide if you trust me or not.

Limitations of the site: You cannot do anything there that will contradict what you can do in Sleuth. Major reason being that the original Sleuth is the main "engine" you will run.

Benefits of the site: I don't plan, and I don't want to, and I don't feel it would be right if I were to charge something for the services the site offers. Subscribing will be to Hypotetical Software only. What I do hope are that I may offer something that may add to the interest of people. If more people get interested, find it fun or want to get more of the game, then more people might end up subscribing. The one getting the good side of that deal will be Ben, and that's actually exactly what I want.

Irene
Irene

Nov-28-2009 07:13

Treasure hunts with more: Some of you have said that it's nothing new. And, you are partly right. As I have control of many characters, it's seen as a bit of a problem if I join in on the ordinary treasure hunts, because I am able to alter the competition too much. I realize it's not fun for others.
So, if I put up new kinds of treasure hunts on my site, then I will be able to play that hunts, and even make them kind of treasure hunts with no competition. That will give the joy of doing them, without destroying for everyone else.
Also, I believe that there are more variation one might add to treasure hunts, to make them suit different needs and wants. The "Lazy hunt" is one thing to try out, where you get max one hint a day anyway, thereby taking away some of the stress parts of a TH, and enable even smaller agencies to have great success.
I will act as the only programmer (at least for quite some time), and also do the "moderating", until I find people that I believe will be able to help me doing the job the way I want.

Pictures: You will notice that I have made copy of many of the Sleuth original pictures, as well as new pictures that get added, and put them up on a separate server. This is NOT because I want to steal them, but realizing that cost is connected to network load, I felt it polite to take some of the network loads from Ben's picture server. Now, his server is much faster than the one I have made a deal with, so it would be a gain for me to not make the copy. Still, I need a server for the extra pictures, and felt it would be nice if I shared some of the load with his image-server. That's the major reason.

Irene
Irene

Nov-28-2009 08:50

Some of you will even notice that my site is written in the same language that the original uses. This is done by purpose. - if it enables me to help with the original, I would be filled with joy, even though I doubt it will happen.

When it comes to usage, let me give you some thoughts, to help you figure out if this is dangerous or not.

If I decide to create a new city that you may travel to, and you find it will be interesting, then you will have to travel. To travel you need to be subscribed. Catch - you need to be subbed to the original.
If I create a new item that you might want to get your hands on, I might require that you fulfill a mission to get to the item. Partly catch - as the mission might include some requirements only availiable to those subbed to the original.
If I create new kinds of treasure hunts. Partly catch - if not a complete catch - as you might need to travel to do the requirements for the hunt.
If I create a new kind of "treasure hunt", more similar to an AVH competition, - definately a catch - as you cannot do an AVH unless you are subbed to the original.
If I manage to do anything that makes it more fun or interesting to play sleuth, even giving you the ability to participate with development of the game, you might want to have more cases to play each day - catch - you have to sub to the original. - or you just need to sub in order to get to it - definately a catch - the sub is to the Sleuth Noir original.

Then ask yourself: Who is going to be the one who benefits if you sub to Sleuth Noir original?

Answer: WE ARE. It's going to be more activity here, and more people will get to the pleasures of giving back to this game that we all love. - giving both to the game, and to each other.

- of course, Ben will also benefit from this, but I believe neither of us see that as a disadvantage.

Sleuth Admin
Sleuth Admin
Tale Spinner

Nov-30-2009 08:57

Hi all,

I'm going to do what I can to support Irene in this project. I really like the idea of the community adding this kind of content, and am excited to see what she comes up with.

So, there isn't really an issue from the copyright and IP permissions angle, as she asked for permission from me some time ago.

There is, obviously, some concern from the security and trust angle. As of now, if you use the Sleuth Noir Extended site, you are trusting her (and anybody else who works on the project) with your credentials. We will need to add a system to allow users to grant permissions to external tools, without trusting their passwords to 3rd party sites. But, for now we don't have that.

So, I am going to go ahead and add a link to Irene's site on the Community Sites page. That link will also contain a popup alert notifying the user about the security risks. I'm doing this right now (before working out a better security mechanism) because I don't want to stunt the site's development.

That said, please note that by providing your Sleuth credentials to any 3rd party site you are completely trusting the site administrators with your Sleuth account. So for now, I would suggest only people who are involved in the project to login there.


Secret_Squirrel
Secret_Squirrel
Safety Officer

Nov-30-2009 17:39

Thanks Ben for giving us a response. Much appreciated.

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