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Apr-16-2009 10:18

I wanted to start this thread to get some opinions from others in the community about the advantages that some players/agencies have over one another. I am not saying my thoughts on them are right or wrong nor am I saying that anybody else’s is. In fact, you may see me flip flop on the topics from time to time as I sometimes like to look at both sides.

What I do not want to see here is for this to turn into a flame war and/or any name calling. Remember, it doesn’t matter if you have been here for 10 days or 1000 days. Every opinion of someone that pays to play the game carries just as much weight as the next person.

A good debate can be healthy for the community and I ask you to all stay respectful here even if you disagree with something that is said here. I will start with some topics and would like to see them discussed and if anyone thinks I missed something or would like to add a topic, by all means go for it.

Apr-18-2009 10:20

There are some things that can be changed subtly in the game to reintroduce the challenge, that shouldn't produce much complaint:

Limit use of contacts: As we know, we can only use the crime lab once a day, so why can we use contacts so freely? I would prefer to see a system similar to the crime lab, where we could choose a case, and it would automatically match any contact PE to the suspects in that case.

Limit use of Case Files: Allow people to only open so many other detectives cases in the files a day. The only real reasons to use case files if the contact frame above was introduced would be to help unclam suspects or to solve the case.

Limit IP logins: Only allow a single IP address to log into 2 detectives a day, and allow a detective to sign in from only 2 IP addresses a day. This would cut down on abuse in Treasure Hunts, as well as limiting the number of subs a single person can control in an agency. If family units play in the same house, then a petition can be made to the admins to allow them to increase the number of logins for their specific detectives.

Disallow solving of other detective's cases: This one is a little more controversial, but there is logical reasoning behind it. If a client asks a detective to solve a murder, then they expect it to be solved by that detective. So why should someone else be solving the case?

AI favours: This would add flavour to Treasure Hunts, introducing a greater chance of having to quit a needed favour. Most people can complete 85-90% of cases in a VH, whereas its about 99% of favours.

Apr-18-2009 10:22

And of course, there was a line that precedes that very first post, but due to my lack of being able to even copy/paste with any kind of real skill, let me add that line here now:

"A rule that can't be enforced is not a rule. It's a wish."

I have to disagree with this completely....

Apr-18-2009 13:14

I think we do not need to restrict the access to detectives (although a limit to 4 detectives seems logical and allows families to play in the game plus is giving you the chance to create all possible combinations male/female tough and male /female charm ). There are people who like to spend hours in the game and for that reason they create different detectives and they are willing to pay for them and this is fine for me. We all agree that we need people in the game so let people play the way they want especially when they are ready to invest money and subscriptions in the game.

Simply do not allow them to gain an unfair advantage. As I said you can simply do it with 3 actions. 1. Remove the High score list (individual and agency score) to correct past unfair actions and strategies and cut their motivation to use side methods to climb up.2. Do not allow a detective to hold a favor thus cutting any side thoughts of gaining an advantage in TH through multiple detective control actions. 3. Do not allow detectives to enter an Agency if the agency is participating in a TH thus cutting the further supply of cases in a TH. If these 3 simple precautions exist …there is no way left for unfair competition in the game.

And finally a last paragraph just to explain (from my small recent experience) why cases may be given from only one detective. Recently my small 18 years old daughter made an account under the name of Vampiria Dragonis and Vampirion. What she does is opening her cases with her accounts but solving them with my account VS. She does it because she is able to solve the cases faster with VS as VS is having all factions skills (not to mention that I find VS in cairo and SL). She is young and she does not wish to spent her time developing her characters and she goes for the easy solution and simply when she finish the case she gives it. I know that I risk for shady a lot but …

Apr-18-2009 13:27

I will probably touch on a few things that have been brought up throughout this post along the way and remember this is just my opinion.

Eye Spy has been around a long time and things at the agency have changed over the years. When we started out we were an agency of family and friends, there were 5 of us and we each had 2 accounts. We enjoyed having TH parties, all 5 of us would get together and sit around 1 computer, have a few drinks and socialize on a weekend afternoon taking turns at the computer when the favor we had came up on the hunt so no I wouldnt want to see the number of account at an ip address limited. We would get very excited when we beat out one of the top agencies on a hunt even when we figured there was no way we would ever catch up to them and move in on the top of the high score boards.

As far as password sharing, I have nothing against it.We have never asked anyone for their password and never would but dont have anything against any member of the agency having someone elses if they want to share it. We dont condone abuse of this privelge and it is only used when a contact or favor is needed or if someone cant play and just want their cases saved so someone else can use them.

Over time we have had a lot of newbies go through the agency and try to help where we can but over time have found that you must be very careful how you help. Dont do things for them just nudge them in the right direction. It makes a big difference to how they enjoy the game and if they become a long standing member of the community.

The agency has now gone worldwide and I still enjoy seeing the newbies getting their name in the paper when they pick up one of those valued treasures or catch their first villian.

Apr-18-2009 13:28

I have seen a lot of changes over the years and must say that I dont agree with them all but realize that they have been done for a reason so just adapt to the new changes and carry on. I still enjopy signing in when I can and chatting with other sleuthers and hope to be able to for a long time to come.

Well thats all I have to say for now and I realize its a lot for me to say as I dont usually say too much so enjoy and Happy Sleuthing

Apr-18-2009 14:16

The Use of Automated Helpers:

This thread has mostly turned into a debate over automated sleuth helpers, which to be honest is the topic on this thread that I feel the least emotion about. However I will comment on it.

I recently started using Pigeot’s helper. I never used it when it first became available. Why did I not use it? Well I guess there are 2 reasons: 1. The only thing I trust playing my cases is my own brain. 2. I enjoyed my little spreadsheet method where I had to apply all the logic myself to solve a case �" I liked the challenge.

So why did I recently start using it? Well honestly, after playing 4000 cases, I am aware of all the formulas and the tricks there are to solving a case, and Pigeot’s helper made it faster and easier to organize my cases �" instead of flipping back and forth between sleuth and a spreadsheet. But I can say this - I never trust it. There have been times when I’ve had a little network blip and it incorrectly identified a trait of a suspect or matched a footprint to someone when it was actually a note that I matched. So I always triple check. I never just go with the accused that the helper tells me. I make sure it is right. I look at it more as an organization tool than a case solver.

Do I think newbs should use Pigeot’s helper? No. It gives away some of the secrets and the logic that is required to solve a case. And I think that would take away some of the excitement of figuring it out on your own.

So on the topic of the most recent case solver, I personally would not use it in a million years. I actually enjoy the clicking and sitting here deciding what questions to ask who. That is, after all, how you play the game. And I guess I just enjoy Sleuth and I find it quite relaxing after a long day of work �" even the repetitive clicking I have done 1000s of times. I can’t see finding enjoyment in clicking one button and getting all my motives and alibis and my PE for my contact checked in a matter of seconds.

Apr-18-2009 14:17

What’s the point? To me that is like deciding I want to read a novel, and just buying the cliff notes so I can finish faster. If I got the cliff notes, I didn’t really read the novel, and if you use an automated case solver, are you actually really solving a case? So I guess the question to the people who use this is, do you actually enjoy playing Sleuth, or are you just trying to move up the high scores list as fast as possible?

Are automated case solvers “cheating” or unethical? I can’t really say. It certainly doesn’t feel right. The one thing I can say is it’s not really in-line with the spirit of Sleuth.

Password sharing:

A few years ago, Ben contemplated trying to technically prevent password sharing. From everything I have read from him on this matter, he is not a fan. But it was such a common practice and the community was up in arms about it, so nothing was done. However, I can say that when he made Shades, he pre-built some measures to make password sharing less enticing - giving everyone 30 cases per day so there was no need to use other people’s cases, preventing one detective storing a case in the case files and a different detective opening the case on the same computer and solving it. In my opinion, this was to stop some of the practices that are being discussed on this thread.

What are my opinions on it? I’m not a fan. Only 3 people in the history of my detective have ever had my password. They were close friends, they were people I trusted, and it was for emergency purposes only. I don’t want other people solving my cases (my point above I only trust my own brain to solve a case for nicnic). I can see very little reason for anyone to need my password. At Eye Spy, my director has never asked for my password. And we seem to get along just fine all playing our own detectives.

Apr-18-2009 14:17

I have recently heard that there are sleuths out there that have access to dozens of passwords across all different kinds of agencies, and I guess I have a few questions why. First of all, why are people giving out their passwords so easily? And secondly, why do directors need your password? When you sign up to an agency or are given a gift sub and the first thing you are asked is to give up your password, do you question this a bit? What would anyone need to do with your account? Well I suspect I know the answers and that is to use your detective when you are offline for THs and checking PE with your contact. The old getting items back for the locker if you accidentally forget to put them back doesn’t hold much weight. New players typically don’t have access to the much-better directors’ gear, so I can’t image it would be an emergency to wait a day or so to get a marwadi padgi back in the locker.

So let’s go back to the 2 reasons I listed: THs and checking PE. THs are supposed to be a team effort. Although this has happened throughout the history of the game, it’s not really in the spirit of competitive hunting for one person to sit there and run through 10-12 detectives to win a hunt. Although it may not be illegal, it is certainly not in the spirit of the Sleuth competitive community. And personally I wouldn’t find too much fun or reward in that. In addition, you pay to get 12 cases every day. If you are at work and someone in a different time zone logs in and does all your cases for a TH they were working on and you have no cases left, wouldn’t you be a bit POed?

Apr-18-2009 14:18

As for checking PE, what could be such an emergency, that someone couldn’t wait for you to log on to check their PE? Unless, that person is using the “assembly line” method of case-solving where they only check their own PE, and then cycle through other detectives accounts to get the rest of it checked without actually making an attempt at solving it on their own. I don’t believe this was the original intent of having case files. This practice has been shunned in both agencies I have been in. It has been shunned in the community and we have had some high-profile detectives leave because of the backlash from the community when it was apparent this is what they were doing. Again, just like with the automated case solver, what is the point of doing this? Do you actually enjoy playing Sleuth? My least favorite cases are the ones where I find the guilty party through my own PE contact. I like the challenge of trying to use logic to figure out my case. But maybe I’m weird that way.

One last point, directors are nothing other than another person sitting in front of a computer on the internet. Just be careful. There have been incidents where directors have abused others’ accounts by reading and deleting their PMs. Like Adam said, you don’t go giving out your personal e-mail password to some stranger on the internet, why are people so willing to give out their Sleuth password?

Apr-18-2009 14:18

Subbed Detectives:

I don’t think this is up for debate. It is against the rules for any individual to have more than two subbed detectives in an agency. And I’m sorry ctown, dear, I have to correct you. There is no stipulation for THing agencies or not. The community has generally let it slide if the agency doesn’t TH. The only way for Ben to enforce this would be to be to look through all the players in agencies and where their subs come from regularly. I can personally say I wouldn’t want Ben to spend all of his Sleuth-time doing this. However, when this has been suspected of happening in the past and reported, Ben has looked into it and took action. It doesn’t matter if we like this or not, it’s the way it is.

I believe this rule would also apply to individuals that have access to detective’s passwords and give those detectives gift subs after they have left the game to continue to use their account. I don’t see any difference, and I believe we have a lot of this going on. This is the only topic that has been discussed that I can safely say is wrong and is against the rules.

I guess I’m sort of a Sleuth-purist. :-)