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Jun-20-2007 12:56

***This is my opinion. Strictly my opinion.***


I've looked at the community, and anyone who's been here longer than 100 days is able to see that Sleuth activity has gone down the tubes. Dead. And what is to blame? The agencies.

Now, agencies aren't the root cause. Let's get that straight. But the way they have been operating is. The problems with agencies are (1) the quantity, (2) the purpose, (3) and the role they play.

Okay, first, the quantity of agencies. Not too long ago, there were about 20-30 agencies. All full at 12 persons each, coming to a total of roughly 240-360 people. That was a good amount. But now, we have almost 120 agencies. That's right. 600% of the amount we had about a year ago. Sure, some may argue that the community has grown, and it certainly has. But 600% growth? I don't think so.

Jun-20-2007 19:49

I don't think I would call it a "fatal" flaw. The game is going to keep moving forward. It will be stagnant at times, that is to be expected.

Jojo, I don't see how agencies make hunts die quicker, as a member of EyeSpy, we try to get those hunts ASAP and sometimes get them before others have a chance to join, how would less agencies prolong them?

Jun-20-2007 20:12

Sorry, I worded that wrongly.

I meant to say that the things I listed originally in my post make interest in hunts die quicker.

Jun-20-2007 21:04

I said to Lulah that I wasn't going to say anything, but here I go anyway... :)

Everything is a cycle. Agencies come and go. Agents come and go. We get "new and exciting" features like villian hunting and the AVL and everyone jumps on those things and enjoys them (me included). However, those "new and exciting" things will become boring and bland after a while. Hunts will come back in style and VHing will be out. Apartments were great when they came out (and still are) but have we heard anyone talking about them lately? No - but then again, I hear the '80s are coming back into style, too (*shudders at thinking of side ponytails with neon green scrunchies*). :)

Of course, as Sleuth grows, the community will change. But we have a chance to make it a BETTER community as that happens. And the introduction of Sleuth II in September will bring more changes. The question is, how are we going to adapt to those changes? Are we going to sit around and mourn the old days? Or get excited about the new stuff and incorporate it into our community?

I personally feel like one of the *best* things about Sleuth is the opportunity to join or create an agency. Those agents that you are with become a kind of family to you (I still miss our agents that have moved on!!). It doesn't matter what the overall purpose is or how many of them there are or if they participate in agency hunts or VHs. They are what draw people into the community and keep them here. That's why I'm still here. If I wasn't part of my agency, I probably would have let my subscription lapse a long time ago. So, anyway, after a thousand word dissertation...I'll stop. I could say a lot more - but I won't (and the Sleuth world breathes a HUGE sigh of relief!). :)

Jun-20-2007 22:32

Well, I have been here for 50 days, and I could share a noob's opinion on this matter.

When I first joined, I really thought the community as well as their interaction was great. Every post on the Newbie forums got answered, and I have been fortunate not to have encountered any drama whatsoever. I have made new friends with a lot of people, some new, some old, and everyone has just been great.

Although the community seems less active as before (assumed this after reading some of the posts from ages ago), I personally dont think that Agencies are to be blamed for this. Since more people are joining up everyday, so too will the number of Agencies that are to be created. Some of the top Agencies may have a monopoly on the hunts in certain cities, but still, hunts are sometimes based on luck, and however new and small an agency is, I think everyone still have an equal chance to win on treasure hunts.

I used to log on everyday to play my cases out and get more experience, but after having read a few of the veterans's posts, I am now afraid of what will happen once I reach my goals, will I continue playing 3-4 hours a day, or do I burnout like the rest? Theres just not enough incentive or challenge to keep the 'oldies' occupied, which is why I thought up of the 'Dossier File' idea in the first place (shameless plug -.- check other thread), because its a mini game of sorts that would interest new and old players alike and would take a long while to complete.

Right now, I still enjoy Sleuth, but looking to the future, I am certain that game updates wont arrive fast enough to keep the community pleased. Im sure it will just get worse when Sleuth II arrives. But whatever the case may be, I hope most of the community will stay and keep our classic Sleuth alive then.

Jun-20-2007 23:21

A Beef from Beef.

I have to agree with Ara...partially anyway. I don't think that the community is losing veteran and skilled players due to the way agencies are being run or expanding. I don't think that we have a decrease in the activity or the feeling in competitiveness from high ranking and once active agencies due to an increase in the number of new agencies...or in satellite agencies. You would think that an increase in agencies joining in treasure hunts, would only create more competitiveness among them, wanting the bigger ones to crush the newbies. And I don't think that the increase in newbies chatting in the bar, or on these boards is the sole reason for the loss of interest in the game (well, not completely).

BOREDOM. It has kicked in for a lot of us. Maybe not for the newbies who are joining every day and discovering the newness of the game and the community. But it is for those who have been involved in the community for a longer period of time.

click...click...click...convict. click....click...click...convict. click...click...click...BOREDOM. Once you have gained all the skills possible; once you have done the AVL's a few dozen times; once you have brought in a multitude of treasures...it has all become a routine. And routine makes it hard to get excited about logging in. Routine is hard enough to deal with in your real life if you have to...why pay for it online to only feel underwhelmed? That is why their is a lack of competitiveness. That is why their is a loss of activity. That is why the community is losing once active and excited individuals.

It has been hard to sign in. Like Ara, I have been taking a break, stepping away from the community for the most part. I log in for the friends over at SMRT that are always fun to engage in philosophical conversations about body hair and manginas. That's what has kept me returning...not so much the game any more. The additions are few and far between and get old really quick.

Jun-20-2007 23:26

....and where I will disagree with Ara...Sleuth 2...what's the point? Why not spend the time and energy to continue making this site even better? Even more exciting? I hope this is not the case, but what will Sleuth 2 do that this one doesn't already do? I just feel that the lack of interest in a game that has become robotic and repetitive without change, for me anyway, is what is causing myself and others to walk away.

At least the boards and the people at SMRT have kept me interested in signing in and returning...which is getting harder to do when they are logging in less for the same reasons as myself/

Just Flapping my Beef.

Jun-20-2007 23:40

Just to make my point again I can fund my agency's daily rent by solving 3 cases a day or 1 favour. If this were true of every member it would add a necessity for agencies to focus and work to survive. It would reduce those that just want to chat and keep Sleuth's set on playing the game more.

Jun-20-2007 23:43

*braids a jelly-bracelet and a cabbage-patch kid into his chest hair so people will take him seriously what with the 80s craze and all* And I'm NOT neon green!

(oh wait...you said Scrunchie, with an 'S'..my bad)

It's kind of funny, I was in chat with Jas and some other people earlier this week and there was a newbie there who asked, literally, "How do you beat this game?"

We sort of shrugged and said..."You don't".

If you look at the top 30 page right now, you see a lot of people who either recently hit 10 million exp or are hovering around there somewhere, but if you looked at it 2 months ago, you'd see it jammed full of people who had peaked and, for whatever reason, stopped playing. I know that a few of those were over various conflicts, but I have to think as well reading all this that some of them must have been over the kind of stuff being raised here about burnout, boredom and so on.

There is almost nothing I've read here that I have any argument with, and nothing at all that I have a substantial argument with, so I'm going to return to something I said earlier and take it from there.

When I asked jojo to clarify specifically what things he felt were lagging in terms of activity I was thinking about the distinction between recruitment and retention, or between GETTING people to play and then KEEPING them around. With that in mind I have some things to say about 'new things'. First, people will always find ways to use new things in ways that weren't imagined when they were introduced with equally unforeseen consequences. Second, in a game context, as has been pointed out, "new" becomes old pretty quickly, so I feel like there's a really limited amount that introducing new stuff can do in terms of retaining people.

I've said this before, but I really feel like the key to retaining people is not in the game itself (whose spontaneity is finite), but in the community, (infinitely spontaneous). Butcher's new idea is a great example of this, (more)

Jun-20-2007 23:56

...as are any number of really cool, fun things that have happened on the boards in the time I've been here, just as I'm sure that people have enjoyed agency stuff, role-play and whatnot that happens off the boards.

Anyways that's why I was concerned about distinguishing between what types of activity might be lagging. I think the game itself is GREAT for planting the addiction bug, but it's the non-game stuff that keeps me coming back. So while I do see the connection between the two, I'd like to try to think about both fronts, because I do agree that both have slowed down a bit.

So if I haven't just ripped the prize for most long-winded post from Emma, a couple of ideas about hunting I'm just gonna throw out:

Idea the first (not mine, read it on the boards somewhere, too lazy to dig up the link):

Restrict hunts of particular levels of difficulty to agencies according to their fame. Littler hunts for less "famous" agencies and bigger ones for famehiltons like SMRT :P

Idea the second:

Make hunting more lucrative. We're actually shying away from some of the smaller multis right now because there's a pretty good chance of actually losing fame points once you factor in the lost cases due to travel and the fact that a lot of people build favours using easier cases while away from home.

Jun-21-2007 00:49

Crunchy raises an interesting point here. Not that Ona are hugely famous!

It may be a good idea to tie in a difficulty level on hunts that sets what level cases must be solved to gain a favour, once started all in the agency have to complete cases of that level in order to unlock favours thus making the hunts more chalenging.

This though does miss one of Jojo's points if I remember rightly which seemed to be that so many agencies weren't bothering with hunts so the competativeness from them is slipping.