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War in Iraq
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BadAss
BadAss
Charioteer

Jun-6-2006 19:55

Post your opinion her about the ongoing war in Iraq. And remember folks, everybody is entitled to an opinion so don't flame eachother for having opposite thoughts.

Constructive debating can be a nice way to overcome differences and not just widen the gap.

Replies

BadAss
BadAss
Charioteer

Jun-8-2006 17:05

And yes, similar atrocities were taken out by the allies and their enemies. The sad cycle of history repeats itself. And it might not be policy what certain isolated individuals did, it certainly is policy to prevent and sanction such things.

I still have a hard time to believe that Charles Graner and Lyndsey England were the only ones who were to be held responsible for what happened in Abu Ghraib. Under whose command were they and how come those guys never had to appear in court? And remember, official statements and the truth aren't necessarily the same.

crunchpatty
crunchpatty
Old Shoe

Jun-9-2006 01:33

*vomits a little bit in throat*

atheling, are you SERIOUSLY trying to equate cell phone use with social and political justice??? Wow. Who needs democracy when you've got bluetooth?

It has nothing to do with whether a war is fought perfectly. No one expects that. Many people DO hope that a war is fought justifiably. All the justifications given have so far proved to be conjecture and gross distortion. In balance to the thousands of lives lost, you offer the establishment of the Baghdad Stock Exchange? How telling. Often in this discourse, 'freedom' is equated with 'free markets'. I'm of the humble opinion that given the choice, most people would vote for not having their lives threatened, their children killed and their communities turned to rubble over a spanky new stock exchange.

Other comments on this thread should serve to highlight the fact that the Geneva conventions are no more a burden for 'liberators' than they are for 'terrorists'. See Abu Ghraib. See detainment without charge. See illegal deportations and cover ups. See Sikhs beaten because idiots think anything in a turban might be a terrorist. See administration's public dismissal of same conventions as burdensome.

Your contributions:

1. You ask others for proof. Prove your own claim. Don't pull the old 'well it's impossible to prove' thing. You say weapons were moved...prove their existence. Also, deal with your ugly insinuation that the US had some Divine right to move without the agreement of the world community. The fact that it keeps it HQ in New York doesn't mean it's an instrument for US interests.

2. The 'response' here started long before 9-11. See Madalyn Albright's revolting comment that the death of half a million Iraqi children linked to sanctions imposed after the first gulf war were worth the greater cause. Also, calling for a strong response is fine...how about a relevant one? The majority of the 9-11 hijackers were Saudis. Oh wait... (more)

crunchpatty
crunchpatty
Old Shoe

Jun-9-2006 02:10

(cont) ...the U.S. has important political and economic relations with the Saudi Administration. The elder Bush was sitting on boards of directors for some of their oil companies at the time. Hmm. Weird how Saudi Arabia never surfaced as a target for agression. And, speaking of relevance...pre-911, the perpetrators of the largest terrorist act on U.S soil were a Christian militia...I'm trying really hard to remember the U.S war on global Christian Extremism, but just can't think of a single incident...weird, no? Finally, you speak about a need for the locus to be away from home. Why? Would it be a less worthwhile cause if most of the violence was likely to occur at home? How does that thinking work? Aren't civilian casualties simply civilian casualties, irrespective of where they occur? Why are they more acceptable if they aren't in the states? Would we be having this conversation if tens of thousands of people in North America had been killed?

3. Would a Palestinian agree that Israel is a democratic state? Whose perspective is being privileged there? And, it's hard to realistically respect the position that this effort is in the interests of spreading democracy when, for decades, there was not even a hint of intervention into South Africa's formal Apartheid policy.

It IS a religious war for many people apart from Muslim Extremists. Just look at how many people on this thread alone have cited God!

I agree with much of what you have said -particularly insofar as individual soldiers sometimes act in horrible ways, and I would never judge those actions to be a balanced representation of an entire effort. What I question is whether, after decades of negative experience, their commanders can legitimately claim that these soldiers reactions to the horrific pressures of war were ever really unexpected. The military spends loads of money on psychological assessment...seems to me like they would have seen it coming.

(Or even counted on it)

Charlie Cain
Charlie Cain
Thespian

Jun-10-2006 21:11

Just gonna say this to the people who think the Iraqi citizens didnt want to be invaded.

I was here for the initial push and saw all the citizens cheering us on telling us " Saddam bad Bush good" and they still cheer us on today so you cant say they dont want us here they feel protected cause they have to put up with the same things we do over here.

And if anyone remembers 9/11 they would know why we are here its called a pre emtive strike take the war to them. The only reason we are playing the games with the other countries with wmd is because we are already committed to Iraq and cant start another push until we are done here.

Zarqawi was a terrorist of course he would be around. But thats just my views on it and no one should talk about the citizens of Iraq unless you have been here and seen faces met them, even became friends with them. I know this is a just war even with out WMD or anything else if anyone would have seen the way these people lived before we got here then you would know. Dont trust the news cause good news doesnt sell only the bad and then its more or less blown out of proportion.

Charlie Cain
Charlie Cain
Thespian

Jun-10-2006 21:13

now why Iraq was first simple start with the ones that hate you cause its just gonna end up hostile anyways right.

Reese Withers
Reese Withers
Well-Connected

Jun-11-2006 10:29

Amen Charlie!! Noone knows but those, like yourself, who are actually THERE hearing what the Iraq citizens are saying, etc. I also agree that the news doesnt tell you EVERYTHING, and does blow things out of proportion.

Thank you for saying what you did! You are over there....and you, along with the rest of you, are the ONLY ones who TRULY know what is going on, and what is being said! :) HUGS and God Bless! You ARE making a difference ;)

Amarantha
Amarantha

Jun-11-2006 19:01

Right, Charlie. Good news doesn't sell as well as bad news. Does that imply we have to ignore all coverage that sounds somewhat negative?

You also bring up the point that Iraqi citizens were cheering with the liberators. True. We could see that on the news coverage too. I'm sure they were full of hope after they got rid of their tyrant. How they look upon their future now is somewhat uncertain. Perhaps you could fill us in on that.

Why did the Alliance pick on Iraq? You start with the one that hates you... Interesting. I'm sure we'd be surprised to find out how many countries despise western imperialism.

And yes, Reese, the news doesn't always tell everything. But sometimes it tells things the way they are, whether you like it or not.

Della Devine
Della Devine
Well-Connected

Jun-12-2006 00:37

How do you tell when something is blown out of proportion or is the straight truth when you're not there to see it yourself? Like it or not, people are going to form their own opinions on it. They will believe what they want to believe or is in their hearts to believe. That is their right as individuals. This does not necessarily mean they are right or that they are wrong. It's an opinion.

I will admit to having had severe reservations about the wisdom of posting this thread (no offense meant, Badass) due to the sensitivity of the subject and the very adamant and divided opinions on it. So far, while there have been some very emphatically voiced opinions, none of them have targeted an individual for voicing an opinion that differed from theirs. I am proud to be a member of a community that is able to discuss such a sensitive subject in an intelligent and thought provoking manner. I truly hope that this thread continues in such a vein.

Charlie Cain
Charlie Cain
Thespian

Jun-12-2006 00:58

Amarantha thats a great question and they do still have a bright outlook on thier future but they are scared. Not of us or anyother country here for thier liberation but of the terrorists the ones that live among them and threaten them and thier families. What were trying to do here is spread the hope that if you do stand up for what you believe in it will be harder for someone to opress you. Remember hope always finds a way and the just will always prevail maybe not right away or in the near future but there will be a time when the Iraqi citizens wont have to be scared anymore. But the conditions have changed here and things are getting better day by day for the people of Iraq and I believe it will spread like a wild fire here and maybe even in the rest of the world. So just remeber to keep not only the troops in your prayers but also this new fledgling democracy.

DCI Thomas loughbrough
DCI Thomas loughbrough

Sep-2-2007 12:15

my officers are out there but i don't agree with iraq it's wrong

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